enviroian

I completely agree with the OP's actions. While I support our troops and are gracious for the service they provide, rules are rules. I would have done the same thing he did. Great job! ^

Short hair Francis

I totally back the actions of PhlyingRph here as well.

At the end of the day, the upgrades to the soldiers wasn't the GAs to give.
The company, doesn't matter if its UA or whomever, all of which have listed a specific guideline of how upgrades are to be handled.
The GA was caught in violation of these guidelines by the OP while still giving the GA the opportunity to waggle out of the situation which I applause him for.

Does the military do alot of sacrifices for the country, yes they do.
Howerver at the end of the day, there aren't any drafts anymore and they themselves made the decision to join the military.

It is unfortunately in both sense, yes the upgrades were taken away from the soldiers but at the same time, we also have to protect our own rights and benefits that we as frequent fliers have earn by our patronage and spending not be misdirected or misused.

mlbcard

Wow, that's disturbing. I hope the GA was reported. Can you point to the thread that talks about this?

bocastephen

I found one thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...-finished.html

There is at least one other thread and two specific incidents I recall:

1) a bunch of FC passengers offering to give their seats to military and pressuring others to do the same

2) another incident of a paid F customer boarding and finding an 'upgraded' soldier in their seat and the GA making a scene on board and guilting them into sitting in the back (which IIRC, they refused to do and insisted on their F seat)

PhlyingRPh

One of the things I find to be especially silly is the way people make a huge to do about some poor soldier who's just trying to get from A to B. Most of the time, I feel sorry for these fellows, because they don't particularly seem to enjoy the ridiculous shows of jingoism and being thrust into the limelight. I've seen it all, and so have many of you - from the disturbing stuff that bocastephen described upthread to calmer, more personal and understated demonstrations of appreciation. I can appreciate someone expressing their thanks for something they feel strongly about in a calm and couth manner..

Some of the things that I think need to be seriously reconsidered under the light of logic are the on board announcements asking everyone to "give a round of applause for the troops flying with us today". That's almost every flight on American Airlines. Oh, and the poetry - Argh, is nothing sacred? At least leave the poetry out of it! Then there is CO, inviting soldiers to board every flight first, even before F pax. The Global Services boys are not going to like that once the merger with UA is complete I can tell you. You already know my opinion on bumping the rightful recipients of upgrades in favor of others, and I think GA's are doing a great disservice to top tier passengers by engaging in such behavior.

SkyWest's United Express FA's have really taken it to another level though. I recall a ridiculous spectacle on a UX flight from ORD to DFW last year where the FA started off the flight by asking everyone to show their appreciation for the poor soldier in 5A. "He's been in Eye-raq for three months and he's home for five days". Then half way through the flight she literally drags the poor fellow to the front of the aircraft so that she can do a live interview with him on the overhead. It's like family hour on Armed Forces Radio now. The majority of the passenger's were just lapping this up, despite the fact that the soldier really didn't seem comfortable talking about himself and his experiences to about eighty shallow people who will have forgotten everything about him once they get home and start working on their expense reports for the week.
Finally, after landing she asks every passenger to remain seated until this fellow has exited the aircraft, so that he can spend as much time with his family as possible. She also asked that people consider shaking his hand as he walked down the aisle. Seated as I was directly in front of her in 1A, I asked her if she thought the handshakes might cut into the five days he had at home, and wouldn't be quicker if we all just saluted him, so that he could shoot us a quick salute as he made that left turn? She didn't like that and I got plenty of boo's and hisses that afternoon, but that's life being PhlyingRPh.

nerd

On international flights, actually, there aren't any complimentary upgrades on United.

PhlyingRPh

Sure there are, but they are generally for operational reasons (Y full / seats in J and F available).

trooper

What seems to have escaped comment is that the ONLY reason the OP knew who the two were was because they were, presumably, travelling on duty.. in uniform or were easily identifiable as military in some other fashion.

So.. a question.

Had two "guys in suits" (or any clothes other than military uniform) sat in those seats and talked about how lucky they were to get put there unexpectedly...

..would the OP have done the same thing??

If not.. why not?

If not.. (and pardon me for thinking that likely).... so much for all this talk about "rules" etc....

Please note: I am a 14 year RAN veteran. Saw active service in the Gulf War in 91 etc etc..... and I don't think service folk should be routinely upgraded either. Unless of course another pax offers/arranges it.

I have a greater dislike however for folks being mean to young soldiers and cloaking that activity with self righteousness.

moeve

While I understand the whole idea behind upgrading a young person in uniform who maybe returning from a tour of duty in a less than comfortable environment THAT however isn't always the case. One of my very few C class trips 2 years ago I had the empty seat next to me being filled with a service man uniform. As I struck up a conversation with him I asked where he was coming from. It turns out he was a desk jockey in the US on official business and hadn't been abroad at all and from what I understood when he flew on official business he had to wear uniform....... My sight of that is that this can lead to a misconception at times.

Mr H

I have no great love of soldiers and I think that FFs should be upgraded first (actually my experience with soldiers is that football fans should be upgraded before squaddies). But once the gift has been given, it is so wrong to take it away. I think that was very mean-spirited.

Unimatrix One

My 2 cents:

1. I agree that the GA is wrong for violating rules by upgrading soldiers over elites who were trying to use SWUs. Why should soldiers get free upgrades over customers who are entitled to those upgrades under the program rules? This is a business, not a charity. If a business publishes rules that entitle certain customers to benefits, then those customers should be provided those benefits when available. Full stop.

2. HOWEVER, I personally would not have done what the OP did. The soldiers were already seated in J. Talking to the GA and the elite flyers created a scene and ended up embarrassing the soldiers when they were booted to coach. It's not the soldiers' fault that the GA broke the rules. IMO they should not have been embarrassed and had their hopes raised (and then dashed) in this manner.

Instead, I would have quietly written down the relevant information (GA's name, flight #, date, etc.) and then written a letter to UA describing the rule violation. I might also have followed up with a call to UA customer service. And of course I would have posted the experience here on FT.

*A Flyer

As others have said, those who join the military today do so voluntarily and as a career choice. Irrespective of the fact that they are responsible for protecting the interests of their country, they are just the same as any other person doing their job. While I know that many in the United States hold members of the armed services in high regard that is no reason to give them special treatment just for doing their job. There are many other people who are just as deserving based on the job they do (doctors, nurses, firemen and paramedics amongst others) who do not get such treatment and accolades as they are less conspicuous. In this case, while it may seem somewhat demanding the OP was really only protecting his rights as a frequent flyer. While the GA had made a decision, my understanding is that it is not in accordance with UA policy which would see elite frequent flyers upgraded first. The last thing a 1K or GS member would want is to see more GAs making decisions outside guidelines to the detriment of commercially valuable passengers who see their perks being taken away.

Zantaine

I've edited my post to explain the relevance of my points.

While I don’t agree with what the OP did, I understand there are rules and procedures. I do think it was a bit out of line for the OP to do what he did. However, I would like to bring up a few points I think are worth being brought up because I keep seeing people in this thread (and others) mentioning them. (Exception to the fourth point which is something I just wanted to share) If needed, I'll quote posts in this thread referencing my first three points.

1.) Anyone who compares someone in the military to a doctor, teacher, etc. is comparing apples and oranges. The bottom line is the personnel in the military go to war – not a single other profession does this in the conventional sense. Do other professions risk their lives on a daily basis? Of course, but only one profession goes to war. (conventionally) I won’t even go into the fact that the military personnel who do deploy will leave behind 90% of the comforts of home for 6, 12, 18+ months at a time many times over…

2.) To keep it in perspective literally less than 1% of the US’s
population serve in the Armed Forces – so it’s not exactly an overwhelming issue. (Keeping in mind of course certain airports are hubs for military personnel while other airports will almost never see military personnel)

3.) It’s true that these guys/gals will probably have very few opportunities to enjoy the benefits of first class that many of us frequent fliers enjoy fairly regularly. And for those who aren’t “fans of the military” please keep in mind that military personnel are following the objectives and guidance given to them by the civilian politicians that have been elected into power through democracy – i.e. don’t dislike military personnel simply because “they are”. Remember we’re all human beings with families, desires, aspirations, and feelings.

4.) Lastly, I challenge anyone who is reading this to just strike up a casual conversation with the next uniformed member you see in an airplane/airport. The last time I did this a very young (20ish?) soldier told me he was an EOD (explosive ordnance disposal) technician and showed me pictures of bombs he disarmed and the damage some of the bombs did to their vehicles. About 5 minutes later this Soldier’s Sgt came by and the two of them were exchanging stories. One of the stories brought up the fact that “when it’s your time it’s your time” that’s literally the mindset these guys have everyday they’re over there. It literally just blew my mind. The pride this kid had in his work and the fact that he would do this for such little appreciation AND being so casual about the increased likelihood that he could meet his demise much sooner than the majority of us could…words can’t even begin to explain how it made me feel…

edj3

Zantaine, none of your points have anything to do with the airlines following their own policies regarding upgrades. If you want to give yours away, if that assuages any guilt you feel based on point four, well then that's your choice. It's my choice to keep mine.

Those of us who chose to server (and yes you are right, we are in the minority) volunteered for that service. That decision doesn't make us somehow magically worthy of all sorts of special treatment.

travisc

Being already seated has nothing to do with it.

Do seat-crashers get rights to your seat just because they sat down before you? No.

There is very little recourse for the average pax to ensure the rules are followed fairly. What are your alternatives? Write a letter of complaint? I doubt it will do much in the grand scheme. The real fault is with the GA*, but I doubt even reprimanding the GA publicly will stop their (imho) misdirected patriotism.

War is such an emotional issue that unfortunately I can't see anything changing.

*All this being said, if the airline stated in its upgrade policy that active service members are given first priority, then this whole discussion is a non-issue.