Service members being upgraded ahead of elite flyers.
Jan 20, 2011, 11:30 am
#16
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Could it be given the apparent 'last minuteness' of the actions of the staff that 6J and 6H were sold seats, but the passengers didn't show for them? By the time the flight was boarded, calls made over the PA etc. there were 2 seats left in business. You then have 2 soldiers, flying standby, who are assigned those seats. It isn't an 'upgrading some over others' scenario, but a 'we have 2 empty seats we thought would be full, we can get these soldiers on their way by putting them in those empty seats'. Heck of a lot less of a to-do to do that, then suddenly try to move existing passengers to new seats, 1k status or not.
I really don't think it was any of the other passengers business, and he should not have interfered. Had the 1k passengers who were denied an upgrade wanted to make a big deal of it (or perhaps their view was 'heck, I am going to write a letter and complain, the miles I will get are worth more to me than this upgrade anyway') that would be different. I think it put the GA in an uncomfortable position, especially as by the posters own admission he was being pushy.
I really don't think it was any of the other passengers business, and he should not have interfered. Had the 1k passengers who were denied an upgrade wanted to make a big deal of it (or perhaps their view was 'heck, I am going to write a letter and complain, the miles I will get are worth more to me than this upgrade anyway') that would be different. I think it put the GA in an uncomfortable position, especially as by the posters own admission he was being pushy.
1. The gate agent will announce something to the effect of, "All of first class has boarded, so no more upgrades will be processed. If you're still waiting, you can go ahead and board."
2. If you board and an upgrade then comes through, the gate agent or flight attendant will find you on the plane and let you know that you can move to the other cabin.
Plus, I don't think most soldiers fly standby. I think they're on confirmed tickets.
Jan 20, 2011, 1:15 pm
#17
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Sorry, but whilst I understand that you feel entitled as a "top tier flyer" to upgrades, I actually think that the GA was right upgrading two soldiers, who ultimately may one day make the ultimate sacrifice for their fellow countrymen over 2 top tier frequent flyers who probably get numerous free upgrades a year and obviously didn't want to take money in their hands to book the highest class of cabin open to them. If you hadn't sought out the other 2 passengers then they would have been none-the-wiser.
to them too - after they heard that two servicemen had been downgraded so they could benefit, I would have expected them to refuse the upgrade!EDITED to add: And whilst I haven't served myself, I do have family in the armed forces and I see the sacrifices that they and their families make on a regular basis. I would be quite happy to give up an upgrade for a serviceman/woman as a result (and I've only had an upgrade once btw.)
Jan 20, 2011, 1:15 pm
#18
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I see what you are saying, but I left the GA with plenty of wiggle room to tell me to mind my own business, and indeed when I left him I did not think my rude seat swap effort had been successful. My personal thought is that, like many gate agents these days, he had made a habit of upgrading soldiers at the expense of those enrolled in programs and holding instruments that entitle them to a space available upgrade. If I am correct in this, I feel my stab at rudeness was absolutely the correct thing to do, but I understand if others might think I am an interfering busybody.
Likewise, were the two 1Ks whom you got upgraded crying rivers over their lack of upgrade? I take it that, since they were not in first class to begin with, they had actually booked coach seats and would have been perfectly happy back there, had you not chosen interfere?
Those who served should be treated with respect and gratitude for their service, particularly since it's been entirely voluntary service for several decades, but they should not be treated as a different or higher class of American.
"All men are created equal..." etc., is kinda what they were fighting for in the first place, wasn't it?
Jan 20, 2011, 1:26 pm
#20
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Thank you PTravel. I am glad someone else is able to view this from the same angle as me.
Jan 20, 2011, 1:36 pm
#21
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Jan 20, 2011, 2:19 pm
#22
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They can be on standby for e.g. earlier flights, on oversold flights etc. just like regular passengers, I believe.
Jan 20, 2011, 2:21 pm
#23
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I see what you are saying, but I left the GA with plenty of wiggle room to tell me to mind my own business, and indeed when I left him I did not think my rude seat swap effort had been successful. My personal thought is that, like many gate agents these days, he had made a habit of upgrading soldiers at the expense of those enrolled in programs and holding instruments that entitle them to a space available upgrade. If I am correct in this, I feel my stab at rudeness was absolutely the correct thing to do, but I understand if others might think I am an interfering busybody.
Upgrading a soldier, little old lady, sexy person, or whatever, should be the exclusive choice of a customer giving up their upgrade or using companion upgrade privileges (when upgrading a stranger does not screw another elite out of their upgrade) - and absent a written company policy that permits a last-seat upgrade to a soldier, such activity should be forbidden and reported to HQ when seen.
Have I ever upgraded a soldier? Yes I have, using my Plat companion privileges and ONLY after determining that no other Elite or Elite companion was on the list and would be shorted by my actions.
Airline employees should not be making that choice on my behalf, nor should other customers coerce me into going along with any 'upgrade the soldier' programs. These folks are appreciated, but are 100% volunteers and fully knowledgeable about what they're getting into. If we had a draft and they were being rounded up and shipped away against their will, then perhaps my opinion might soften a bit.
Jan 20, 2011, 3:02 pm
#24
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There really is a simple solution to the seeming conundrum presented by the "upgrading soldiers" portion of this thread:
The next time a person who likes to see soldiers upgraded is at an airport, approach the podium, whip out your ... wallet, and tell the GA that you would like to pay the fare difference to upgrade any and all uniformed active military members, up to the number of open seats available in the premium cabin.
This accomplishes the following:
Yes, it really is that simple
The next time a person who likes to see soldiers upgraded is at an airport, approach the podium, whip out your ... wallet, and tell the GA that you would like to pay the fare difference to upgrade any and all uniformed active military members, up to the number of open seats available in the premium cabin.
This accomplishes the following:
- The military members are happy, because they get to ride in the front
- The gate agent is happy, because she/he does not need to worry about issuing last-second upgrades
- The airline bean counters are ecstatic, as they have gained revenue they would not otherwise have made
- The person paying out-of-pocket is happy, with warm-and-fuzzy feelings inside
- The elite passengers, while disappointed over missing an upgrade, are nonetheless satisfied that the airline followed the rules and that there were simply no empty seats left after all eligible revenue pax had been accommodated
Yes, it really is that simple
Jan 20, 2011, 3:28 pm
#25
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Did Mr. Charming Guy get a nice blue swirlie in the lav later on, courtesy of the three affected pax?
Jan 20, 2011, 3:30 pm
#26
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I have a seat switch story that some may not appreciate, but I would ask up front that you judge the circumstances solely on the outcome for those that individually contribute the most to the business of air travel - the top tier frequent flyers...
I was waiting to board UA 938 ORD-LHR one evening last December. While waiting for the GA to open up the boarding lane, I started chatting with the gentleman ahead of me - about the UA-CO merger, benefit erosion, upgrade successes, yada, yada. He mentions that his SWU did not clear, which made me sad for him.
We board and I take my seat (rear facing 6K). Eventually, there are only two seats open in the Business cabin - 6J, next to me, and 6H across the aisle. Two young soldiers are escorted to 6J and 6H by the GA who tells them "enjoy, and thank you for your service". These kids seem rather chipper about their unexpected surroundings and before either can sit down I get up and walk into Y to find the 1K who did not get upgraded (he's in the middle seat in the Y bulkhead). I ask him for his boarding pass and he's clearly uncomfortable with my request but starts looking for it when I tell him I am trying to get him a better seat. While he's searching, I ask if there are any other 1K's sitting around him and his neighbor says he is a Premier Executive. Neither can find their BP's so I walk back to the front door where the GA is about to shut up shop and ask him why he upgraded two kids in uniform when there are multiple 1K's sitting in Y, at least one of whom had an SWU that did not clear. I was being a little pushy so I dialed it back a bit and focussed on the disparity between revenue from individual top tier flyers, vs. that from individual soldiers. The GA was clearly thinking about my request so I told him which seats the two 1K's were in, thanked him for reconsidering and returned to my seat. Not more than five minutes later, the GA tells the soldiers that there had been a mistake and asks them to move to new seats in the Economy cabin. The soldiers were good kids and got up and left. A couple of minutes later, the two gentlemen from the Economy bulkhead show up and there is this incredible outpouring of thanks for the upgrade. I forego the group hug, but these guys are extremely, extremely grateful for the upgrades right up until Mr. 6C points out that two soldiers had apparently been downgraded a couple of minutes earlier. Anyway, we were back to the high fives and jovial comments like "I'd buy you a drink if they weren't already free" in no time at all.
I actually wasn't going to post this story at all because I didn't want the politics to override what I think was a pro-frequent flyer act, but I think this thread is an appropriate place for it.
You are now free to throw your virtual custard pies at me.
I was waiting to board UA 938 ORD-LHR one evening last December. While waiting for the GA to open up the boarding lane, I started chatting with the gentleman ahead of me - about the UA-CO merger, benefit erosion, upgrade successes, yada, yada. He mentions that his SWU did not clear, which made me sad for him.
We board and I take my seat (rear facing 6K). Eventually, there are only two seats open in the Business cabin - 6J, next to me, and 6H across the aisle. Two young soldiers are escorted to 6J and 6H by the GA who tells them "enjoy, and thank you for your service". These kids seem rather chipper about their unexpected surroundings and before either can sit down I get up and walk into Y to find the 1K who did not get upgraded (he's in the middle seat in the Y bulkhead). I ask him for his boarding pass and he's clearly uncomfortable with my request but starts looking for it when I tell him I am trying to get him a better seat. While he's searching, I ask if there are any other 1K's sitting around him and his neighbor says he is a Premier Executive. Neither can find their BP's so I walk back to the front door where the GA is about to shut up shop and ask him why he upgraded two kids in uniform when there are multiple 1K's sitting in Y, at least one of whom had an SWU that did not clear. I was being a little pushy so I dialed it back a bit and focussed on the disparity between revenue from individual top tier flyers, vs. that from individual soldiers. The GA was clearly thinking about my request so I told him which seats the two 1K's were in, thanked him for reconsidering and returned to my seat. Not more than five minutes later, the GA tells the soldiers that there had been a mistake and asks them to move to new seats in the Economy cabin. The soldiers were good kids and got up and left. A couple of minutes later, the two gentlemen from the Economy bulkhead show up and there is this incredible outpouring of thanks for the upgrade. I forego the group hug, but these guys are extremely, extremely grateful for the upgrades right up until Mr. 6C points out that two soldiers had apparently been downgraded a couple of minutes earlier. Anyway, we were back to the high fives and jovial comments like "I'd buy you a drink if they weren't already free" in no time at all.
I actually wasn't going to post this story at all because I didn't want the politics to override what I think was a pro-frequent flyer act, but I think this thread is an appropriate place for it.
You are now free to throw your virtual custard pies at me.
Thanks for doing this!
Jan 20, 2011, 4:26 pm
#27
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SAN
Posts: 2,426
I have a seat switch story that some may not appreciate, but I would ask up front that you judge the circumstances solely on the outcome for those that individually contribute the most to the business of air travel - the top tier frequent flyers...
I was waiting to board UA 938 ORD-LHR one evening last December. While waiting for the GA to open up the boarding lane, I started chatting with the gentleman ahead of me - about the UA-CO merger, benefit erosion, upgrade successes, yada, yada. He mentions that his SWU did not clear, which made me sad for him.
We board and I take my seat (rear facing 6K). Eventually, there are only two seats open in the Business cabin - 6J, next to me, and 6H across the aisle. Two young soldiers are escorted to 6J and 6H by the GA who tells them "enjoy, and thank you for your service". These kids seem rather chipper about their unexpected surroundings and before either can sit down I get up and walk into Y to find the 1K who did not get upgraded (he's in the middle seat in the Y bulkhead). I ask him for his boarding pass and he's clearly uncomfortable with my request but starts looking for it when I tell him I am trying to get him a better seat. While he's searching, I ask if there are any other 1K's sitting around him and his neighbor says he is a Premier Executive. Neither can find their BP's so I walk back to the front door where the GA is about to shut up shop and ask him why he upgraded two kids in uniform when there are multiple 1K's sitting in Y, at least one of whom had an SWU that did not clear. I was being a little pushy so I dialed it back a bit and focussed on the disparity between revenue from individual top tier flyers, vs. that from individual soldiers. The GA was clearly thinking about my request so I told him which seats the two 1K's were in, thanked him for reconsidering and returned to my seat. Not more than five minutes later, the GA tells the soldiers that there had been a mistake and asks them to move to new seats in the Economy cabin. The soldiers were good kids and got up and left. A couple of minutes later, the two gentlemen from the Economy bulkhead show up and there is this incredible outpouring of thanks for the upgrade. I forego the group hug, but these guys are extremely, extremely grateful for the upgrades right up until Mr. 6C points out that two soldiers had apparently been downgraded a couple of minutes earlier. Anyway, we were back to the high fives and jovial comments like "I'd buy you a drink if they weren't already free" in no time at all.
I actually wasn't going to post this story at all because I didn't want the politics to override what I think was a pro-frequent flyer act, but I think this thread is an appropriate place for it.
You are now free to throw your virtual custard pies at me.
I was waiting to board UA 938 ORD-LHR one evening last December. While waiting for the GA to open up the boarding lane, I started chatting with the gentleman ahead of me - about the UA-CO merger, benefit erosion, upgrade successes, yada, yada. He mentions that his SWU did not clear, which made me sad for him.
We board and I take my seat (rear facing 6K). Eventually, there are only two seats open in the Business cabin - 6J, next to me, and 6H across the aisle. Two young soldiers are escorted to 6J and 6H by the GA who tells them "enjoy, and thank you for your service". These kids seem rather chipper about their unexpected surroundings and before either can sit down I get up and walk into Y to find the 1K who did not get upgraded (he's in the middle seat in the Y bulkhead). I ask him for his boarding pass and he's clearly uncomfortable with my request but starts looking for it when I tell him I am trying to get him a better seat. While he's searching, I ask if there are any other 1K's sitting around him and his neighbor says he is a Premier Executive. Neither can find their BP's so I walk back to the front door where the GA is about to shut up shop and ask him why he upgraded two kids in uniform when there are multiple 1K's sitting in Y, at least one of whom had an SWU that did not clear. I was being a little pushy so I dialed it back a bit and focussed on the disparity between revenue from individual top tier flyers, vs. that from individual soldiers. The GA was clearly thinking about my request so I told him which seats the two 1K's were in, thanked him for reconsidering and returned to my seat. Not more than five minutes later, the GA tells the soldiers that there had been a mistake and asks them to move to new seats in the Economy cabin. The soldiers were good kids and got up and left. A couple of minutes later, the two gentlemen from the Economy bulkhead show up and there is this incredible outpouring of thanks for the upgrade. I forego the group hug, but these guys are extremely, extremely grateful for the upgrades right up until Mr. 6C points out that two soldiers had apparently been downgraded a couple of minutes earlier. Anyway, we were back to the high fives and jovial comments like "I'd buy you a drink if they weren't already free" in no time at all.
I actually wasn't going to post this story at all because I didn't want the politics to override what I think was a pro-frequent flyer act, but I think this thread is an appropriate place for it.
You are now free to throw your virtual custard pies at me.
If they are doing op ups from the general population and want to choose soldiers first, that is OK. If they are denying frequent flyers valid use of their upgrade instruments to op up soldiers, that is wrong.
Jan 20, 2011, 7:22 pm
#28
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I have given my UG to people I thought should be UGed.
On the other hand, I think it's the job of the gate agent
to follow the rules.
Retraining isn't enough. The GA should be fired.
On the other hand, I think it's the job of the gate agent
to follow the rules.
Retraining isn't enough. The GA should be fired.
Jan 20, 2011, 7:30 pm
#29
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It was none of your business.
Jan 20, 2011, 7:31 pm
#30
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I just wanted to clarify for all readers that the posts in this thread were originally part of a thread titled "Rude Seat Swaps in 2010".