ExpertFlyer vs KVS Availability Tools
Aug 4, 2010 | 1:53 am
#46
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,952
So based on the following info from KVS and my review of the EF list of airlines for which it tracks awards and upgrades, it sounds like KVS is a better tool for me. EF is better for AA and EK, but KVS is better for the rest (and I'm aware, by the way, of the problem with UA doing Starnet blocking, which can affect the accuracy of the results I'd get from KVS for LH).
Do I have that right?
Do I have that right?
Aug 4, 2010 | 4:38 pm
#47
Company Representative - ExpertFlyer
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,924
The list of exclusives outdated and inaccurate as we've added many award airlines to EF.
In addition, not only does ExpertFlyer have more AA data and the same UA data, but we allow you to use all of it in more flexible ways:
- AA awards show actual class values (Z1, C4, U5, etc), not just a + or - based on the number of passengers you enter for the search.
- 14 days of results are available with one search
- A Mobile version, with all EF features, is available now.
- Flight Alerts allows you to be notified when award/upgrade (or any other) class not currently available becomes available.
Either way, you are welcome to try us for 5-days, free of charge. Just sign up and start searching immediately. KVS doesn't appear to offer a free trial on his website, but if you ask for one I'm sure he'll accommodate you. Try us both out (and AwardNexus.com as well) and see for yourself what is the best solution or combination of solutions for your needs. That's really the best way.
In addition, not only does ExpertFlyer have more AA data and the same UA data, but we allow you to use all of it in more flexible ways:
- AA awards show actual class values (Z1, C4, U5, etc), not just a + or - based on the number of passengers you enter for the search.
- 14 days of results are available with one search
- A Mobile version, with all EF features, is available now.
- Flight Alerts allows you to be notified when award/upgrade (or any other) class not currently available becomes available.
Either way, you are welcome to try us for 5-days, free of charge. Just sign up and start searching immediately. KVS doesn't appear to offer a free trial on his website, but if you ask for one I'm sure he'll accommodate you. Try us both out (and AwardNexus.com as well) and see for yourself what is the best solution or combination of solutions for your needs. That's really the best way.
Last edited by ExpertFlyer Voice; Aug 4, 2010 at 6:39 pm
Aug 12, 2010 | 7:42 pm
#48
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 505
Are either KVS or EF capable of quickly identifying fares/trips that offer free or low-priced stopovers? Preferably for international, non-award travel.
I'm trying to figure out whether there is a "creative" booking alternative to simply buying a RTW ticket.
I'm trying to figure out whether there is a "creative" booking alternative to simply buying a RTW ticket.
Aug 12, 2010 | 7:49 pm
#49
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MN
Programs: Lots of programs, dirt on all of them!
Posts: 11,943
Not sure if those services offer what you are looking for. But unless you are doing extensive stopovers, I have booked RTW flights for myself and several others and piecing together various flights and tickets has almost always been cheaper than an off-the-shelf RTW ticket.
Aug 12, 2010 | 8:38 pm
#50
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 505
Certainly, I'd want to use EF or KVS for other travel plans too, but right now my focus is on a potential honeymoon next year involving two one week-ish stopovers around ATH and BKK, while potentially adding one or two other cities for three weeks total of travel. Is either service demonstrably better at helping me plan this type of trip (and if so, why)?
Aug 13, 2010 | 10:27 am
#51
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: LI, NY
Programs: AA EXP, AAdv since Day One
Posts: 2,702
With Expertflyer the Fare Information section response page to a query has the ability to pull up both the fare rules, which would tell you if stopover are allowed for your route, and a fare routing section which tells you the permissible routings between the end points.
They have a 5 day free trial so just try it and see if it meets your needs.
They have a 5 day free trial so just try it and see if it meets your needs.
Aug 13, 2010 | 12:33 pm
#52
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,952
Aug 13, 2010 | 3:43 pm
#53
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Indeed, as long as you read the fare rules for every fare in question for the stopover details. It isn't like fares with free or inexpensive stopovers are highlighted specially in either tool. It certainly is not a trivial task to identify such fares.
Jan 10, 2011 | 2:32 pm
#54
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,506
Swiss: Different results on each product
Folks I am full paid up user of both products. Love em both. Wish KVS would be web based, wish EF had more airlines. C'est la vie.
Anyway I am looking at availability on Swiss (LX) and getting very different results on each. Just one example:
7/29/2011: JFK-ZRH. EF shows 2 seats on both LX15 and LX17 in F (O class). KVS shows FS-
7/30/2001: ZRH-BKK. EF shows 2 seats on LX180. KVS shows FS-
Pretty much all the time I see O class on EF, I see FS- for same number of seats on KVS.
Anyone know who's right?
Anyway I am looking at availability on Swiss (LX) and getting very different results on each. Just one example:
7/29/2011: JFK-ZRH. EF shows 2 seats on both LX15 and LX17 in F (O class). KVS shows FS-
7/30/2001: ZRH-BKK. EF shows 2 seats on LX180. KVS shows FS-
Pretty much all the time I see O class on EF, I see FS- for same number of seats on KVS.
Anyone know who's right?
Jan 10, 2011 | 3:00 pm
#55
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 264
Folks I am full paid up user of both products. Love em both. Wish KVS would be web based, wish EF had more airlines. C'est la vie.
Anyway I am looking at availability on Swiss (LX) and getting very different results on each. Just one example:
7/29/2011: JFK-ZRH. EF shows 2 seats on both LX15 and LX17 in F (O class). KVS shows FS-
7/30/2001: ZRH-BKK. EF shows 2 seats on LX180. KVS shows FS-
Pretty much all the time I see O class on EF, I see FS- for same number of seats on KVS.
Anyone know who's right?
Anyway I am looking at availability on Swiss (LX) and getting very different results on each. Just one example:
7/29/2011: JFK-ZRH. EF shows 2 seats on both LX15 and LX17 in F (O class). KVS shows FS-
7/30/2001: ZRH-BKK. EF shows 2 seats on LX180. KVS shows FS-
Pretty much all the time I see O class on EF, I see FS- for same number of seats on KVS.
Anyone know who's right?
Jan 10, 2011 | 5:24 pm
#56
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,952
Folks I am full paid up user of both products. Love em both. Wish KVS would be web based, wish EF had more airlines. C'est la vie.
Anyway I am looking at availability on Swiss (LX) and getting very different results on each. Just one example:
7/29/2011: JFK-ZRH. EF shows 2 seats on both LX15 and LX17 in F (O class). KVS shows FS-
7/30/2001: ZRH-BKK. EF shows 2 seats on LX180. KVS shows FS-
Pretty much all the time I see O class on EF, I see FS- for same number of seats on KVS.
Anyone know who's right?
Anyway I am looking at availability on Swiss (LX) and getting very different results on each. Just one example:
7/29/2011: JFK-ZRH. EF shows 2 seats on both LX15 and LX17 in F (O class). KVS shows FS-
7/30/2001: ZRH-BKK. EF shows 2 seats on LX180. KVS shows FS-
Pretty much all the time I see O class on EF, I see FS- for same number of seats on KVS.
Anyone know who's right?
LX has 2 Availability 'sets': One for its own M&M FFP members (which you can see via the [Awards/M&M] Method in the KVS Tool) and another one for *A redemptions (which you can see via the [Awards/StarAlliance] Method). Only the KVS Tool can show you both:
[KVS Availability Tool 6.0.3/Diamond - SNT: Awards/StarAlliance/JP-ANA-SP1]
Code:
JFK New York John F Kennedy Intl NY US [KJFK] ZRH Zurich CH [LSZH] FRI 29 Jul 2011 | 2 Seats Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability --------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- ------------- LX 17 JFK 17:50 ZRH 08:05 +1 333 0 FS- CS- YS- LX 15 JFK 20:55 ZRH 10:50 +1 333 0 FS- CS- YS- LX 19 EWR 21:30 ZRH 11:35 +1 73H 0 FS/ CS- YS/ CO 78 EWR 18:35 ZRH 08:40 +1 762 0 FS/ CS- YS-
Code:
JFK New York John F Kennedy Intl NY US [KJFK] ZRH Zurich CH [LSZH] FRI 29 Jul 2011 | 2 Seats Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability --------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- --------------- LX 17 JFK 17:50 ZRH 08:05 +1 333 FS+ CS+ YS- YR- LX 15 JFK 20:55 ZRH 10:50 +1 333 FS+ CS- YS- YR- LX 19 EWR 21:30 ZRH 11:35 +1 FS- CS+ YS- YR- LH 401 JFK 15:35 FRA 05:10 +1 388 FS- CS+ YS+ YR- -> LH 1184 FRA 07:35 +1 ZRH 08:25 +1 733 LH 409 EWR 16:30 DUS 06:05 +1 333 FS+ CS- YS- YR- -> LX 1029 DUS 06:50 +1 ZRH 08:10 +1 AR1 LX 23 JFK 19:35 GVA 09:40 +1 333 FS+ CS+ YS+ YR- -> LX 2809 GVA 11:05 +1 ZRH 12:00 +1 320 LH 413 EWR 20:10 MUC 10:10 +1 346 FS- CS- YS+ YR- -> LH/CL 2368 MUC 11:25 +1 ZRH 12:20 +1 AR8
Feb 23, 2011 | 3:01 am
#58
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,968
Hope this is an appropriate place to ask the question and I've searched but not found an answer.
I've used both programmes in the past and seem to wander between the two. What I'd like to be able to do is set up an alert to tell me when F seats become available on BA for each of several sectors of a trip to Oz ie lhr>sin/sin>syd/syd>sin/sin>lhr. My travel dates are very flexible and I can build a trip around the seats.
I'm currently using KVS and I have to go through each sector for say a two month period - every day - and each time I see an F seat I put that seat in a spreadsheet. I use the filter to ensure I just get BA metal. I then do the same for the next sector and so on. Clearly just having a series of alerts would be a great time saving help to me and possibly give me an edge to pounce!
Is it possible to do this on either KVS or EF please?
I've used both programmes in the past and seem to wander between the two. What I'd like to be able to do is set up an alert to tell me when F seats become available on BA for each of several sectors of a trip to Oz ie lhr>sin/sin>syd/syd>sin/sin>lhr. My travel dates are very flexible and I can build a trip around the seats.
I'm currently using KVS and I have to go through each sector for say a two month period - every day - and each time I see an F seat I put that seat in a spreadsheet. I use the filter to ensure I just get BA metal. I then do the same for the next sector and so on. Clearly just having a series of alerts would be a great time saving help to me and possibly give me an edge to pounce!
Is it possible to do this on either KVS or EF please?
Feb 23, 2011 | 3:39 am
#59
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: LI, NY
Programs: AA EXP, AAdv since Day One
Posts: 2,702
If I understand what you mean by "seat" I think you mean the vacancy of a particular seat, or seats, like "1A" on a particular flight. Expertflyer does this for Premium subs. It's called a Seat Alert. You pick the specific flights you want in the Seat Map section and then click Create Seat Alert. This then allows you to click on the occupied seat(s) you want to set an alert for. When EF finds a vacancy it will email you a notification.
If by "seat" you mean the availability to purchase an F seat on BA, this is called a Fare Alert, again for Premium subs. On the left side panel click on Create Flight Alert. Fill in the information and give it a name.
In both cases EF will keep looking for what you requested all the way up till departure time.
If by "seat" you mean the availability to purchase an F seat on BA, this is called a Fare Alert, again for Premium subs. On the left side panel click on Create Flight Alert. Fill in the information and give it a name.
In both cases EF will keep looking for what you requested all the way up till departure time.
Feb 23, 2011 | 3:46 am
#60
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,968
Many thanks for your reply.
Apologies for not being clear. No not looking for a specific seat just any two available redemption tickets in F opening up.
Just trying this now ..... I have to create an alert for each day for each sector? This would mean creating say 120 alerts for each month ie 30 days times 4 sectors? This would make it easier to simply page through KVS manually.
Apologies for not being clear. No not looking for a specific seat just any two available redemption tickets in F opening up.
If by "seat" you mean the availability to purchase an F seat on BA, this is called a Fare Alert, again for Premium subs. On the left side panel click on Create Flight Alert. Fill in the information and give it a name.
Last edited by uk1; Feb 23, 2011 at 3:53 am