Nov 11, 2014, 2:41 am

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

Last edit by: Xyzzy

Where does the KVS tool get its data and is KVS authorized to provide this data in the manner it is presented?

The tool is known to access a variety of web sites, many in a manner that is not authorized. Please see the next section of this Wiki for a list of sites believed to be accessed and their data access policies (where known).

Additionally, under some conditions the tool appears to access sites via a KVS-operated back end. This means that the tool is not just a 'web browser' that runs via a user's machine. No detailed public information is available about how this works or whether any of this back-end access is authorized.

Websites KVS Accesses and their relevant Terms of Use

http://book.aircanada.com/pl/AConlin...verrideServlet
http://book.aircanada.com/pl/AConlin...PreviewServlet
https://book.aircanada.com/pl/AConli...verrideServlet
https://www.aircanada.com
Terms of Use:

Quote:

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/legal/notice.html
Use of our web site for any other purpose, including any commercial use or purpose, is expressly prohibited.
Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, you agree that, in using or accessing our website, you shall not commit or participate in any of the following acts or actions, each of which is expressly prohibited under this User Agreement:
directly or indirectly, use or access, or encourage, solicit, permit, facilitate, aid, assist or abet, including, but not limited to, the selling, licensing, distribution or provision to any person of any means that permit, the use or access, or agree to provide the use or access, of our website through any manual process or any automatic, electronic or technical device, including but not limited to automated scripts, robots, crawls, screen scrapers, web "bots", deep-links, indexes, spiders, click-spams, macro programs, or any other device, program, software, system, algorithm, methodology or technology, now known or hereinafter discovered, that performs the same or a similar function, in order to, without limitation: "data mine"; "screen scrape"; data process; access, extract, copy, distribute, aggregate or acquire information; generate impressions or clicks; input or store information; search or generate searches; or manipulate or monitor any portion or content of our website;

http://data.flight24.com/flights/
Terms of Use:

Quote:

http://www.flightradar24.com/terms-and-conditions
Website’s information and Services are provided for personal, non-commercial use only. Permission is granted to temporarily download one copy of the materials (information or software) on Flightradar24’s web site for personal, non-commercial transitory viewing only. This is the grant of a license, not a transfer of title, and under this license you may not:

Modify or copy the materials;
Use the materials for any commercial purpose, or for any public display (commercial or non-commercial);
Attempt to decompile or reverse engineer any software contained on Flightradar24's web site;
Remove any copyright or other proprietary notations from the materials; or
Transfer the materials to another person or "mirror" the materials on any other server.

This license shall automatically terminate if you violate any of these restrictions and may be terminated by Flightradar24 at any time. Upon terminating your viewing of these materials or upon the termination of this license, you must destroy any downloaded materials in your possession whether in electronic or printed format.

http://data.seatexpert.com/tpi/find.php
Terms of Use:

http://plane.lan.com/cgi-bin/recibo_...bo_eticket.cgi
Terms of Use:

Quote:

http://www.lan.com/en_us/sitio_perso...-use/about-us/
You may use the information on our site solely for non-commercial purposes, and any use or modification of the website contents is not permitted.

http://reservations.usairways.com/Default.aspx
Terms of Use:

Quote:

http://reservations.usairways.com/en-US/aboutus/site_usage_policy.html
Content may be used for non-commercial personal use only, and you agree not to modify, copy, transmit, distribute, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, sell or otherwise transfer any information, software, products or services obtained from the Site without prior written permission from US Airways. You agree not to use any automatic device, manual process, or scraping to monitor or copy the Site or the content contained therein for any purpose without US Airways’ prior written permission. You agree not to use any device, software or routine to interfere with or attempt to interfere with the proper working of the Site or any activities conducted on the Site.

https://book.austrian.com/app/fb.fly
Terms of Use:

Quote:

http://www.austrian.com/Info/LegalRegulations/WebsiteTerms.aspx?sc_lang=en&cc=AT
2. Proprietary rights
All trademark rights, copyrights, database rights and other intellectual property rights to the contents of the Austrian-website, (as well as the organization and layout of the website), together with the underlying software code rest, either with Austrian or with its licensors. You may not, either in whole or in part, copy, modify, distribute or use or reproduce in other form contents of the Austrian-website, or the underlying software code, without the prior written consent of Austrian.

3. Permissible use
All Austrian-website online services (including the booking machine) are provided solely for the purpose of enabling you to check the availability of goods or services relating to your journey (the timetable, for example), make legitimate reservations, use our online check-in or transact other business with suppliers. You may only use the website in accordance with these terms and conditions and for the legally permitted purposes described above. In particular, you indicate your agreement to the following:
...
3.5 You may not reproduce information from the Austrian-website for commercial purposes. This also includes providing prices for Austrian flights on another website or another online server. In particular you may not copy, distribute, in other way use or reproduce discarded content from the Austrian-website with the help of 'robots', other search machine technologies or through other automatic mechanisms.

https://booking.qatarairways.com/qri...Booking.action
Terms of Use:

https://book.tam.com.br/TAM/dyn/air/...ng/retrievePNR
Terms of Use:

https://classic.checkmytrip.com/plne...ievePNR.action
Terms of Use:

Quote:

(D) not to use any automated system or software to extract data from the Application, Documents or Services for commercial purposes (such as screen scraping);

Quote:

https://mytripandmore.com/TermsAndConditions.aspx
Except as expressly permitted by these Terms, you may not:
...
9. use any "robot", "spider" or other automatic device, software, program, algorithm, routine, methodology, or any manual process or functionality:
...to monitor, assemble, analyse, index, copy, transmit, distribute, transfer, or link to any of the pages, data, materials, or content available on the Site,

https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/PilotWe...yICAOAction.do
Terms of Use:

https://prefunds.aa.com/refunds/receipt
https://www.aa.com/reservation/findReservationSubmit.do
Terms of Use:

Quote:

https://www.aa.com/i18n/footer/siteUsage.jsp
Intellectual property notifications
...
D. American Airlines owns or uses by permission all software contained on the Site, including without limitation all HTML code and Active X controls. Copyright and other laws and international treaty provisions protect this software. The law expressly prohibits any modification, redistribution, or reproduction of the software, and such actions could result in severe civil and criminal penalties. American Airlines will seek and support prosecuting violators to the maximum extent possible.
E. You may not copy, display, distribute, download, license, modify, publish, re-post, reproduce, reuse, sell, transmit, use to create a derivative work, or otherwise use the content of the Site for public or commercial purposes. Nothing on the Site shall be construed to confer any grant or license of any intellectual property rights, whether by estoppel, by implication, or otherwise.
...
Limitations on your use:
You agree that you will not Misuse the Site. "Misuse" includes, but is not limited to, using the Site to do any of the following:
...
L. Copy or create derivative works from, display, distribute, license, perform, publish, recreate, reproduce, sell, transfer, or transmit any information, products, services, or software obtained by, from, or through the Site.
M. Monitor or copy any Content by using any manual process, or any robot, spider, or other automatic device, without first obtaining American Airlines' prior written consent.

https://raw.github.com/opentraveldat...i_airlines.csv
Terms of Use:

https://secure.jetairways.com/PlatformID/Identify.aspx
Terms of Use:

https://tickets.airtran.com/SeatAvailability.aspx
Terms of Use:

Quote:

http://www.southwest.com/html/about-...ons/index.html
Prohibited Activities

You may not copy, display, distribute, download, license, modify, publish, re-post, reproduce, reuse, sell, transmit, use to create a derivative work, or otherwise use the content of this site for public or commercial purposes without our express written permission. Nothing on this site shall be construed to confer any grant or license of any intellectual property rights, whether by estoppel, by implication, or otherwise.

You may not modify, re-render, frame, mirror, truncate, add to, inject, filter or change the order of the information contained on any page of the Southwest Airlines sites, including, without limitation, by any way of reproducing Southwest Airlines or SWABiz® web pages or Company information on any other web site without our express written permission.

You may not copy, derive, edit, translate, decompile, reverse engineer, modify, use, or reproduce any code or source relating to our sites, including without limitation, any service or product Southwest offers.

You may not cause to appear any pop-up, pop-under, exit windows, expanding buttons, banners advertisement, or anything else which minimizes, covers, or otherwise inhibits the full display of the Southwest Airlines sites.

You may not use any deep-link, page-scrape, robot, crawl, index, spider, click spam, macro programs, Internet agent, or other automatic device, program, algorithm or methodology which does the same things, to use, access, copy, acquire information, generate impressions or clicks, input information, store information, search, generate searches, or monitor any portion of the Southwest Airlines sites or Company information.
...
You may not disguise the origin of information transmitted to, from, or through the Southwest Airlines sites. You may not circumvent any measures implemented by Southwest Airlines aimed at preventing violations of the Use Agreement. You may not violate the restrictions in any robot exclusion header.

When you use the Southwest Airlines sites or Company information for an authorized purpose, you must include all proprietary notices without changing, hiding or deleting them.

You may not engage in any conduct that is, or that Southwest Airlines deems to be, in violation of this Use Agreement.

Quote:

https://www.checkmytrip.com/cmt/apf/...&SITE=NCMTNCMT
3. Licence restrictions

3.1 Except as expressly set out in this EULA or as permitted by any local law, you agree:
...
(D) not to use any automated system or software to extract data from the Application, Documents or Services for commercial purposes (such as screen scraping);

https://www.delta.com/mytrips/findPnr.action
http://www.delta.com/ism/SeatMapDisplay.action
http://www.delta.com/shared/components/blank.jsp
Terms of Use:

https://www.finnair.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.flysas.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.iberia.com/web/retrievePNR.do
Terms of Use:

https://www.lot.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.lufthansa.com
Terms of Use:

Quote:

http://www.lufthansa.com/online/port...d=2016866&l=en

2. Proprietary rights
...You may not, either in whole or in part, copy, modify, distribute or use or reproduce in other form contents of the Lufthansa-website, or the underlying software code, without the prior written consent of Deutsche Lufthansa AG.

https://www.routehappy.com/
Terms of Use:

https://www.swiss.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.tripforyou.net/t4u/PTopAction.do
Terms of Use:

https://www.tripple.jp
Terms of Use:

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...n/default.aspx
Terms of Use:

Quote:

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/legal.aspx This website is for the User's personal, noncommercial use only. User agrees not to modify, copy, alter, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any information, software, products or services obtained from this website without United’s prior written permission. User agrees not to use any robot, spider, other automatic device, or manual process to monitor or copy this website or the content contained therein or for any other unauthorized purpose without United’s prior written permission. ... United reserves the right to investigate any illegal and/or unauthorized use of this website, including, but not limited to, unauthorized framing of this website or unauthorized use of any robot, spider or other automated device, and to take appropriate legal action, including, without limitation, civil, criminal and injunctive redress.

Quote:

http://www.gcmap.com/faq/using
Q: May I use the Great Circle Mapper's maps on my web page?
A: You may use maps generated by the Great Circle Mapper on non-commercial web pages (q.v. commericial use below) so long as you do not profit from them and you include the following credit on pages which include maps:
...
Q: May I use the Great Circle Mapper's maps for commercial sites or publications?
A: Please write to Karl L. Swartz regarding terms for commercial use of the maps.

http://www.iata.org/about/members/Pa...line-list.aspx
Terms of Use:

Quote:

http://www.iata.org/Pages/terms.aspx
2. Your Conduct

The content on this Site is for your personal use only within the organization or entity to which you are attached as applicable, and it is not intended for commercial exploitation unless expressly agreed in writing by IATA through a duly authorized representative. IATA authorizes you to download or reproduce selected materials at this Site only for your personal, non-commercial use, in the ordinary course of business provided that you retain all copyright and other proprietary notices contained in the original materials on any copies of the materials and that the title or database brand name and IATA name is stated as the source.

You may not otherwise modify, disassemble, create derivative works, distribute, reproduce, publicly display, perform, transmit, re-transmit, sell, rent, sublicense, or otherwise use any materials or content on this Site for commercial or non-commercial exploitation by yourself or the organization or entity to which you are attached or permit third parties to so do. Without limitation, unlimited or wholesale reproduction, copying of the content for commercial or non-commercial purposes and unwarranted modification of data and information within the content is not permitted, and any use of these materials on any other website or networked computer environment for any purpose without IATA’s prior written consent is prohibited.
...
4. Intellectual Property Rights

...You must not modify, decompile, or reverse engineer any software IATA discloses to you via this Site, and you must not remove, overprint, or deface any notice of copyright, trademark, logo, legend, or other notice of ownership from any originals or copies of software or information from the website. "IATA Trademarks" means all names, marks, brands, URL names or addresses, logos, designs, trade dress and other designations IATA uses in connection with Products or Services. You are not permitted to incorporate any IATA Trademarks into any other trademarks, service marks, company names, Internet addresses, domain names, or any other similar designations. Any unauthorized use of any materials contained on this website may violate copyright laws, trademark laws, the laws of privacy and publicity, and communications regulations and statutes.

http://www.itn.net/cgi/get
Terms of Use:

http://www.kenya-airways.com/kqbook.aspx
Terms of Use:

http://www.myairlines.ru
Terms of Use:

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/do/dyn/checkmytrip
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatexpert.com/multiple_results.php
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatguru.com/ajax/findseatmap.php
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatmaestro.com/airlines-...eckmytrip.html
http://www.seatmaestro.com/themes/de...te_airline.php
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatplans.com/ajax/Airline
http://www.seatplans.com/ajax/airports-and-city
http://www.seatplans.com/find-and-compare/
Terms of Use:

KVS Availability Tool

Closed Thread Subscribe

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

Apr 14, 2011, 7:10 pm

#4036

KVS

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Original Poster

Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: Worldwide

Posts: 12,949

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSteele

Just got the tool and liking it. However, I noticed that I got a different *A award availability result for the same flight (LH446 FRA-DEN 11/28/2011) when I searched FRA-DEN, then when I did MXP-DEN w/ the Max option enabled.

FRA-DEN shows 3F/3C available. MXP-DEN lists LH446 as an option, but with no availability in F or C.

Is this a bug in the tool, a flaw in the data source, or am I doing/reading something wrong?

Thanks for the help!

Please see "Segment Marriage Logic" at http://Help.KVSTool.com/#Factors

However, it does not normally apply to Award seats, so you can book segment-by-segment as a work-around.

Apr 15, 2011, 9:37 am

#4037

JSteele

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: DEN

Posts: 346

Although the link doesn't seem to be working, I know what married segments are, I just hadn't considered it. It is a relief to know that it won't factor into my award bookings.

While I like the tool, having to search segment by segment really makes not much more efficient for *A searches than, the ANA site.

Apr 15, 2011, 12:55 pm

#4038

ttpld100105

Join Date: Aug 2010

Location: Cupertino, CA

Programs: UA 1P, Marriott Gold, Starwood Gold

Posts: 15

KVS and "You have not made any nominations"

Hi,

First time user to KVS and when trying to search for reward flights using the kris.com engine, I keep getting the error "You have not made any nominations".

Can you help me fix this?

Thanks.

Apr 15, 2011, 1:31 pm

#4039

KVS

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Original Poster

Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: Worldwide

Posts: 12,949

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSteele

Although the link doesn't seem to be working, I know what married segments are, I just hadn't considered it. It is a relief to know that it won't factor into my award bookings.

Some of the links at http://Help.KVSTool.com/#Factors have been updated yesterday.

Quote:

While I like the tool, having to search segment by segment really makes not much more efficient for *A searches than, the ANA site.

Well, as one member previously put it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumpgate

Searches are fast, robust, and easy to use. No back button, no re-filling out forms, no interpreting ANA's different shades of yellow - no web browser period.

I could perform search and search after search on ANA or DL.com using KVS in a fraction of the time it would take using the web sites.

Apr 15, 2011, 1:42 pm

#4040

KVS

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Original Poster

Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: Worldwide

Posts: 12,949

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttpld100105

Hi,

First time user to KVS and when trying to search for reward flights using the kris.com engine, I keep getting the error "You have not made any nominations".

Can you help me fix this?

Thanks.

Welcome to the KVS Tool!

The [Awards/SQ] Method section of the User Guide has now been updated with the following:

In order to be able to check Availability for for more than 1 Seat, your SQ KF account must have the relevant number of Nominees set-up via the Manage Redemption Nominees Section.

Apr 18, 2011, 12:40 pm

#4041

ex-egll

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Ottawa

Programs: BA Bronze,ex-AC*SE,ex-AC*E,ex-AC*P, Marriott Platinum, Starwood Gold, Fairmont Gold, HH Gold

Posts: 275

Hi, brand new KVS user here, who I am sure will have a number of questions over the next few weeks.

Main reason I bought KVS is to try and book 2 Star alliance J award tickets from Ottawa to Auckland NZ. According to KVS the MPM for YOW-AKL is 10698. This pretty much limits me to YOW via YVR, SFO, LAX direct AKL.

Even routing via SYD goes over the MPM. J availability is pretty well 0 on the above routes, but I can find J if I route YOW-BOS/EWR-ICN-AKL but the mileage here is about 13,000+

So, am I correct in thinking that any routing that exceeds the YOW-AKL MPM of 10698 would not be a legal award routing?

Any suggestions of other routes to look at?

Thanks

ex-egll

Apr 18, 2011, 8:40 pm

#4042

jarusoba

Join Date: May 2007

Location: YYZ, but my heart is in Asia

Programs: AC-SE, CX-DM, DL-G, Hyatt-DM, Hilton-DM, Fairmont-Plt, Marriott-S, Accor-Plt, SPG-G, IHG-Plt

Posts: 4,396

I was looking at the availability of AC flights PVG-YYZ on Apr 26. I got this result:

[KVS Availability Tool 6.1.2/Diamond - Sabre: Availability/FS/US-STD]

Code:

PVG  Shanghai PuDong CN [ZSPD]
YYZ  Toronto Pearson Intl ON CA [CYYZ]
TUE  26 Apr 2011

Carrier    Flight  From  Depart    To    Arrive    A/C  St  Availability
---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  --  -----------------------------------------------------------------
AC         88      PVG   17:10     YYZ   18:55     77L      R0 Y2 B2 M2 U0 H0 Q0 V0 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 G0 J0 C0 D0 Z0
AC         26      PVG   15:55     YVR   11:55     763      R0 Y5 B5 M1 U1 H1 Q1 V1 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 G0 J0 C0 D0 Z0
 -> AC     102     YVR   13:30     YYZ   20:50     763      R4 Y9 B9 M6 U6 H5 Q0 V0 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 N0 G0 P0 E0 A0 J9 C9 D7 Z5
AC         26      PVG   15:55     YVR   11:55     763      R0 Y5 B5 M1 U1 H1 Q1 V1 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 G0 J0 C0 D0 Z0
 -> AC     148     YVR   14:30     YYZ   21:50     320      R0 Y9 B9 M9 U7 H7 Q7 V0 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 N0 G0 P0 E0 A0 J9 C9 D1 Z1
AC         26      PVG   15:55     YVR   11:55     763      R0 Y7 B7 M0 U0 H0 Q0 V0 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 K0 J7 C7 D7 Z0
 -> AC     152     YVR   16:55     YYZ   00:15     321      R7 Y7 B7 M7 U7 H0 Q0 V0 N0 W0 G0 S0 P0 T0 E0 L0 A0 K0 J7 C7 D7 Z7
AC         26      PVG   15:55     YVR   11:55     763      R0 Y5 B5 M1 U1 H1 Q1 V1 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 G0 J2 C2 D2 Z0
 -> AC     156     YVR   22:30     YYZ   05:50     321      R2 Y6 B6 M4 U4 H4 Q4 V2 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 N2 G0 P0 E0 A0 J6 C6 D2 Z2

Why are these three entries of AC26 different? Married segments?

Apr 18, 2011, 9:41 pm

#4043

KVS

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Original Poster

Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: Worldwide

Posts: 12,949

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-egll

Welcome to the KVS Tool!

For AC Aeroplan redemptions, you can validate routings either using the MPM+5% or a Routing-based Fare (on any *A carrier).

YOW-EWR-ICN-AKL would require MPM+25%, so the only way this would be permitted is if there was a Routing-based Fare with such a routing.

[KVS Availability Tool 6.1.2/Diamond - Reference: Maximum Permitted Mileage [MPM]: YOW-EWR-ICN-AKL]

Code:

                                                                
CTY   DC   TPM   CUM   MPM  DC SUR  HGL   LWL   25M  XTRA       
YOW 1                                                           
NYC 1 WH   331   331                                            
SEL 3 PA  6879  7210  8202  PA  0M   992     0 10252     0      
AKL 3 EH  5998 13208 10698  PA 25M   164   371 13372     0

Apr 18, 2011, 9:55 pm

#4044

KVS

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Original Poster

Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: Worldwide

Posts: 12,949

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarusoba

I was looking at the availability of AC flights PVG-YYZ on Apr 26. I got this result:

Why are these three entries of AC26 different? Married segments?

Yes, most likely.

Apr 19, 2011, 8:53 am

#4045

ex-egll

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Ottawa

Programs: BA Bronze,ex-AC*SE,ex-AC*E,ex-AC*P, Marriott Platinum, Starwood Gold, Fairmont Gold, HH Gold

Posts: 275

Quote:

YOW-EWR-ICN-AKL would require MPM+25%, so the only way this would be permitted is if there was a Routing-based Fare with such a routing.

Thanks for the response, which immediately leads to the next question; what is a Routing-based Fare, and where can the information be found?

Is it as simple as going to a star alliance carriers web site and pumping in departure point YOW and Destination as AKL, and if the routing provided is (as in the case of LH) YOW-FRA-SIN-AKL-SFO-FRA-YOW, then this is acceptable as an award ticket even though total mileage is around 30,000 vs the MPM of around 21000?

ex-egll

Last edited by ex-egll; Apr 19, 2011 at 10:04 am

Apr 20, 2011, 12:14 am

#4046

KVS

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Original Poster

Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: Worldwide

Posts: 12,949

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-egll

Thanks for the response, which immediately leads to the next question; what is a Routing-based Fare, and where can the information be found?

Routing-based Fares do not use MPM. You can retrieve Routing Rules by double-clicking a Fare in the KVS Tool.

Here is an example of a Routing-Based Fare:

[KVS Availability Tool 6.1.2/Diamond - Routing Rules: YOW-AKL/AC/L0LCETO/1462 USD]

Code:

YOWAKL-AC 20APR11      *RULE DISPLAY*     TARIFF 0003 RULE TAC3 
* ADD APPLICABLE TAX * FED INSP FEES *                          
   -FARE BASIS         CAD       NUC                PTC  FT  GI 
L0LCETO              699.00    719.92               ADT  EX  PA 
L0LCETO/CH25         524.00    539.94               CNN  EX  PA 
L0LCETO/IN90          69.00     71.98               INF  EX  PA 
L0LCETO/CH25         524.00    539.94               INS  EX  PA 
L0LCETO              699.00    719.92               UNN  EX  PA 
BOOKING CODES        L                                          
INDUSTRY FARE TYPE - XOX - ECONOMY CLASS OW EXCURSION           
MPM - PA 10698 VIA PACIFIC
---------------------------------------------------------------

ROUTING  630    FROM  YOW-AC-YTO-AC-YQT-AC-YTO-AC-              
                      YWG-AC-YQR/YXE/YMM-AC-YKA/YLW/YYC/YEA-    
                      AC-YVR-                                   
                  TO  AC-LAX-AC-SYD-NZ/QF/JQ/AC-AKL*            
             OR   TO  AC-LAX-AC-AKL*                            
             OR   TO  AC-SFO-AC-AKL*                            
             OR   TO  AC-HNL-AC-AKL*                            
             OR   TO  AC-AKL*

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-egll

Is it as simple as going to a star alliance carriers web site and pumping in departure point YOW and Destination as AKL, and if the routing provided is (as in the case of LH) YOW-FRA-SIN-AKL-SFO-FRA-YOW, then this is acceptable as an award ticket even though total mileage is around 30,000 vs the MPM of around 21000?

No, that website simply provides possible connections; it does not validate MPM or Routing Rules.

Apr 20, 2011, 7:15 am

#4047

ex-egll

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Ottawa

Programs: BA Bronze,ex-AC*SE,ex-AC*E,ex-AC*P, Marriott Platinum, Starwood Gold, Fairmont Gold, HH Gold

Posts: 275

Thanks again for the response KVS! That was the missing link for me. With the routing rules available a whole new world opens up!!

ex-egll

Apr 20, 2011, 4:26 pm

#4048

ex-egll

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Ottawa

Programs: BA Bronze,ex-AC*SE,ex-AC*E,ex-AC*P, Marriott Platinum, Starwood Gold, Fairmont Gold, HH Gold

Posts: 275

Ye Gods, I'm going to stick with Air Traffic Control in future, it's far simpler! More questions if I may. I pumped in YOW-AKL with SQ fro Feb 14 2012 and got the following under the Routing Rules:

Code:

YOWAKL-SQ 20APR11      *RULE DISPLAY*     TARIFF 0003 RULE 5953 
* ADD APPLICABLE TAX * FED INSP FEES *                          
   -FARE BASIS         CAD       NUC                PTC  FT  GI 
B12MSQO             1575.00   1622.16               ADT  EX  PA 
B12MSQO             1380.00   1421.32               ADT  EX  PA 
B12MSQO/CH25        1181.00   1216.62               CNN  EX  PA 
B12MSQO/IN90         157.00    162.20               INF  EX  PA 
B12MSQO/CH25        1181.00   1216.62               INS  EX  PA 
BOOKING CODES        B                                          
INDUSTRY FARE TYPE - SIP - INSTANT PURCHASE                     
MPM - PA 10698 VIA PACIFIC
---------------------------------------------------------------

ROUTING  700    FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC/SQ-SFO/LAX-             
                      SQ-SEL/HKG-                               
             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC/SQ-SFO/LAX-             
                      SQ-SEL-OZ-BJS/SHA/NKG/CAN/HKG/TPE/TYO/    
                      OSA/FUK/BKK/HAN/SGN/MNL-                  
             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC/SQ-SFO/LAX-             
                      SQ-SEL-OZ-TYO-SQ-BKK-                     
             OR FROM  YOW-CO/US-SFO/LAX-SQ-SEL/HKG-             
             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC-LAX-SQ-TYO-             
                      SQ-BKK-                                   
             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC-LAX-SQ-TPE-             
             OR FROM  YOW-CO/US-LAX-SQ-TYO-SQ-BKK-              
                  TO  SQ-SIN-SQ/MI-AKL*

If I take the first line I believe it breaks down to:
YOW to either YYZ or YVR using ONLY AC then
YYZ or YVR to SFO or LAX on AC or SQ** then
SFO or LAX to SEL or HKG on SQ only then
SEL or HKG to SIN on SQ only then
SIN to AKL on SQ or MI

Is this correct?

(would this be SQ code share? as I don't believe they fly that route)

For an Award ticket, if the flights are restricted to SQ AC and MI in this example then they are hard to find (surprise); however there is good availability on OZ and NH to SEL or HKG, is there a way to find fare-based routes that would allow an award ticket on those airlines for LAX-Asia segments?

If I put the same request in using NH as the airline I get the following:

Code:

YOWAKL-YY 20APR11      *RULE DISPLAY*     TARIFF 0003 RULE 66DD 
* ADD APPLICABLE TAX * FED INSP FEES *                          
   -FARE BASIS         CAD       NUC                PTC  FT  GI 
YIF             O   5591.00   5758.44               ADT  NL  PA 
YIF/CH25        O   4193.00   4318.84               CNN  NL  PA 
YIF/CH25        O   4193.00   4318.84               INS  NL  PA 
YIF             O   5591.00   5758.44               UNN  NL  PA 
YIF/IN90        O    559.00    575.84               INF  NL  PA 
BOOKING CODES ENTER>S E SPECIFIC AIRLINE FARES DISPLAY.         
INDUSTRY FARE TYPE -  EU - ECONOMY UNRESTRICTED                 
MPM - PA 10698 VIA PACIFIC
---------------------------------------------------------------

ROUTING MPM  MPM TRVL PERMITTED

This suggests that NH can only be used within the MPM limit which is not possible. Is this a correct interpretation?

Sorry for all the newbie questions

Wooly

Last edited by ex-egll; Apr 20, 2011 at 6:18 pm

Apr 20, 2011, 6:24 pm

#4049

KVS

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Original Poster

Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: Worldwide

Posts: 12,949

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-egll

Ye Gods, I'm going to stick with Air Traffic Control in future, it's far simpler!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-egll

More questions if I may. I pumped in YOW-AKL with SQ fro Feb 14 2012 and got the following under the Routing Rules:

Code:

YOWAKL-SQ 20APR11      *RULE DISPLAY*     TARIFF 0003 RULE 5953 
* ADD APPLICABLE TAX * FED INSP FEES *                          
   -FARE BASIS         CAD       NUC                PTC  FT  GI 
B12MSQO             1575.00   1622.16               ADT  EX  PA 
B12MSQO             1380.00   1421.32               ADT  EX  PA 
B12MSQO/CH25        1181.00   1216.62               CNN  EX  PA 
B12MSQO/IN90         157.00    162.20               INF  EX  PA 
B12MSQO/CH25        1181.00   1216.62               INS  EX  PA 
BOOKING CODES        B                                          
INDUSTRY FARE TYPE - SIP - INSTANT PURCHASE                     
MPM - PA 10698 VIA PACIFIC
---------------------------------------------------------------

ROUTING  700    FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC/SQ-SFO/LAX-             
                      SQ-SEL/HKG-                               
             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC/SQ-SFO/LAX-             
                      SQ-SEL-OZ-BJS/SHA/NKG/CAN/HKG/TPE/TYO/    
                      OSA/FUK/BKK/HAN/SGN/MNL-                  
             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC/SQ-SFO/LAX-             
                      SQ-SEL-OZ-TYO-SQ-BKK-                     
             OR FROM  YOW-CO/US-SFO/LAX-SQ-SEL/HKG-             
             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC-LAX-SQ-TYO-             
                      SQ-BKK-                                   
             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC-LAX-SQ-TPE-             
             OR FROM  YOW-CO/US-LAX-SQ-TYO-SQ-BKK-              
                  TO  SQ-SIN-SQ/MI-AKL*

Yes, please see also http://Help.KVSTool.com/#Routing_Rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-egll

(would this be SQ code share? as I don't believe they fly that route)

Any flight marketed by AC or SQ would satisfy that part of the Rule.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-egll

If the flights are restricted to SQ AC and MI in this example then they are hard to find (surprise); however there is good availability on OZ and NH to SEL or HKG, is there a way to find fare-based routes that would allow carriage on those airlines? If I put the same request in using NH as the airline I get the following:

Code:

YOWAKL-YY 20APR11      *RULE DISPLAY*     TARIFF 0003 RULE 66DD 
* ADD APPLICABLE TAX * FED INSP FEES *                          
   -FARE BASIS         CAD       NUC                PTC  FT  GI 
YIF             O   5591.00   5758.44               ADT  NL  PA 
YIF/CH25        O   4193.00   4318.84               CNN  NL  PA 
YIF/CH25        O   4193.00   4318.84               INS  NL  PA 
YIF             O   5591.00   5758.44               UNN  NL  PA 
YIF/IN90        O    559.00    575.84               INF  NL  PA 
BOOKING CODES ENTER>S E SPECIFIC AIRLINE FARES DISPLAY.         
INDUSTRY FARE TYPE -  EU - ECONOMY UNRESTRICTED                 
MPM - PA 10698 VIA PACIFIC
---------------------------------------------------------------

ROUTING MPM  MPM TRVL PERMITTED

This suggests that NH can only be used within the MPM limit which is not possible. Is this a correct interpretation?

Neither NH, nor OZ publish any Fares for YOW-AKL.

What you have retrieved (above) is actually a YY Fare:
http://www.KVSTool.com/FAQ.php#IATA_YY_Fares

[KVS Availability Tool 6.1.2/Diamond - Sabre: Fares/DotRes/US]

Code:

YOW  Ottawa Metro / Ottawa Intl ON CA = YOW [CYOW]
AKL  Auckland Intl NZ [NZAA]
O/W  01 May 2011 | Economy

Carrier    From    To    Fare      Cur                      Fare Basis/TD
---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  --  -------------
YY         YOW     AKL      5617   CAD                      YIF

Apr 21, 2011, 7:17 am

#4050

ex-egll

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Ottawa

Programs: BA Bronze,ex-AC*SE,ex-AC*E,ex-AC*P, Marriott Platinum, Starwood Gold, Fairmont Gold, HH Gold

Posts: 275

Again Thanks KVS, hopefully the last question for a while, to which I think I know the answer but would like confirmation.

From the previous post SQ has (among many) a fare based routing of:

YOW-YYZ-LAX-SEL-SIN-AKL.

I am assuming this fare based routing applies only to the SQ product and would not allow me to fly different carriers on the same route to access greater availability, in particular a different carrier out of LAX?

Wooly