Could very well be. But I don't see myself ever getting a phone the size of the Max. Even the 11/12 Pro are pushing it for me as it is.

But the only things missing from the 12 Pro that are [a] compelling to me and [b] anywhere on the horizon of becoming reality are 120Hz, sensor shift, and under-the-glass Touch ID.

A 12 Pro-sized replacement that had all of that and I would probably do the AT&T upgrade, or even just pay the penalty and buy out my contract.

We broke down and ordered new iPhones yesterday from T-Mobile. They're offering a really nice trade-in offer on old iPhones, and we're going to port over from Verizon prepaid to their Magenta Plus plan. My wife and I are upgrading from iPhone XS (her) and XS Max (me) to the 12 Pro and my daughter is upgrading from an 8 to a 12. I'm kind of tired of the giant phone (I've had one or another gargantuphone since the Samsung Galaxy Note 2 in 2012), so I'm looking forward to the 12.

I just checked on PhoneArena and the 12 is only a bit smaller than that old Galaxy Note II. My how times have changed. :D

We waited too long to preorder, so we're in the queue for mid-November. :D

Pro-tip: Choose in-store pickup option, many of which are on release day.

We already ordered for delivery. We can wait a few weeks. 😁

On a side note, does anyone else find the “most powerful iPhone ever” advertising to be odd? Like, no crap. They’re sure as heck not going to build one and say “it’s not quite as good as last year’s, but almost!” :D

Not sure that most advertising in general is aimed at...never mind. Hasn't most Apple advertising over the last 25 years pretty much been an attempt to convince people that they first invented and have now reinvented the wheel?

But I must say, with all of the unboxing and 'first look' videos today, I am, what's the word, loving - no, not loving, absolutely hating the shiny mirror finish on the edges of the Pro models.The official Apple publicity shots made the graphite version appear almost matte.

Wonder if my local store still has that 11 Pro in space grey. Seriously, it was one thing when they had one color for those who like bling. Why are they forcing that on everyone now?

I'd guess a lot goes on sale as used ones, either in the US or overseas, where there's a demographic able to afford say $2-400 for a 2-3-4 years old model but not a $6-800-1000 model.

I'm still on 7 and feel no urge to upgrade.

I don't know if Apple pays this guy or just gives him early access to the hardware. His reviews of iPhone cameras are detailed and they come out early (hence the early access). He usually gives positive reviews.

In any event, he shows some good examples including improvements to Night Mode over the 11.

His conclusion:


iPhone 12 Pro Camera Review: Glacier ? Austin Mann

The only hardware differences are the sensor shift stabilization [made possible by the larger size of the Max] and a slightly longer though slightly slower telephoto [~65mm vs ~55mm, f/2.2 vs. f/2.0]. The software/AI/AR is the same.

If your primary purpose in getting a new phone is for the camera, and you don't care about the extra size, weight, and cost then yeah, sure, wait.

I placed an order to upgrade 4 lines with different iPhone different 12 models. The OLAM was finally updated to replace my company FAN discount with my AARP membership which is the same service discount and waived upgrade fees

This may sound a wild idea - why not buy a camera? ;)

Because a dedicated camera would be an additional thing to carry and less likely to be carried for ad hoc photo-taking than when the camera is built into something that is going to be carried anyway and is convenient -- that is the phone -- when wanting to take photos/videos.

I say this even as I would be fine still using just my iPhone 6 -- a device which I use almost as much or more than even my 11 Pro -- if it weren't for the camera and the updated (and updating of) apps/software.

I understand your argument, but as I underlined - if a gadget's primary purpose is taking pictures, a camera is better. And much better bang for the buck in terms of IQ (Image Quality). For the selfie taker/IG/Snapchat crowd it's just the same.

i've used WiFi SDCards, and cameras from 3 vendors with wifi/bluetooth and smartphone tethering. The experience is pretty stone-age and I wouldnt recommend to, say, my parents if the end of result is for photos to reside be online and shareable.

for someone who doesnt have and doesnt want to own a dedicated camera, but wants the extra photographic envelope from having optical zoom and stabilization, the 12 pro max whatever looks like a serious proposition.

i still maintain a dedicated camera for "serious" shooting, so the standard 12 / 12 mini is sufficient for spontaneous shooting

One of the most common types of pictures taken are those of friends and family at some gatherings -- if we ever have them again after the pandemic.

These are often taken in low light. Even nice DSLRs may require fast lenses, maybe even flash, to have these turn out well.

If Night Mode is good as advertised, it may be a good mix of portability and availability vs. a larger dedicated camera.

That statement is so broad, it's not really true at all levels. It is true at medium and higher levels where you can get better lenses perhaps interchangeable and larger higher quality sensors. But most people don't need that because the high quality smart phones have gotten better and better over the years, and the convenience of carrying one device that does everything outweighs everything else. Other people interested in higher quality images will of course want to carry one or more cameras.

We don't carry dedicated music players or PDAs anymore either. :D It's all about convenience.

-David

if people really want decent pictures they can correct most errors with decent software

Says who? :) At the mid-fi to hi-fi segments they are still very much a thing. This is probably the same as with photography - the masses are happy with streaming mp3 quality music to their earbuds same as they are happy with snapping selfies with their bowl of pasta :)

Head over to head-fi.org to see the scene - a $1k player is not even top of the line :)

those people are lunatics though. they'll walk around with dac/amps rubberbanded to their smartphone just to hear korean pop in slightly higher fidelity while riding the train

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...5ef308a3bd.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...154e1a3ac6.jpg


i was a longtime hold out as well, carrying a dedicated ipod (and other branded players) because i didnt trust the headphone output on phones was good enough. now they are. and storage is cheap. and bandwidth is high. i can stream music at 24b/96khz wirelessly to my phone and transmit it wirelessly to my headphone. and its good enough. the tech closed the quality gap and made it really liberating

My personal opinion about high end HiFi enthusiasts is they listen to the device more than the music.

Many years ago in electronic sales it was a joke amongst the sales force about the all specs that were SO important to that crowd. Come on, how many were able to really hear the difference between an eight bit digital to analog converter compared to a ten bit?

It's the reason Monster Cable became so cherished with that group and still has some presence. The ad copy created a "Golden Ears" crowd. This myth was dispelled by Consumers Report who, oddly enough did not run ad$ from Monster seen in the HiFi magazines.

Isn't the best camera still the one you have with you?

There are two sorts - one using the gear to listen to he music, the other uses the music to listen to the gear...

As for the camera, you are spot on.

Still, when I know I'm out shooting, nothing I own beats my Nikon D7000 with a couple of fast primes, Even my walk around Sony M100m3 cannot keep up, even though it's one of the best pocketables.

12 Pro 256 Space Grey, first impressions:

-Liking the Space Grey

-Absolutely hate the shiny bling edge banding. It's not as bad on the Space Grey as on the other colors, but it's still awful. This will have to be put in a case or it will be badly scratched in short order, just like the piano black finish plastic with which automakers are so enamored. It's also a greasy fingerprint magnet and the shiny light-reflecting mirror finish just broadcasts each and every one. This IMO was a stupid decision. The phone would have looked just as premium with a matte finish like the 4/4s/5 had.

-The frosted glass back looks better than the high polish glass of the 11.

-The size seems like it's going to be OK. It can still be one-handed and isn't really that much bigger than my beloved 6s which, IMO, was the perfect size. But with the micro bezels, the increase in actual screen area between the 12 Pro and the 6/7/8/SE is huge.

-The OLED screen is bright and sharp. But I worry about screen burn. I don't buy Apple's claim that they have some special sauce that makes screen burn a non-issue. I think the only "special" thing they have is the very specific language in their warranty that says that they will not replace phones or screens because of screen burn.

-The phone does have a more "premium" feel over the X and 11.

-What does not feel premium however is the packaging. The box is tiny, because of course it only comes with a cable. No charging brick, no headphones, not booklet.

And about Apple's claim that they have done that for "environmental" reasons: It's complete BS. It's about being able to charge $20-$70 more [charging brick and headphones] without having to raise the price of the phone itself.

Apple says that they want to cut down on waste and that people already have one or more charging bricks from their old iphones, so no need to include one. That's complete crap as evidenced by the fact that the cable they include is Lightning-to-USB-C, but all of those millions of bricks out there are USB-A. So you still have to go out and buy another USB-C charging brick, which Apple, by pure coincidence I am sure, happens to sell - for an additional $20.

Yes, you can still use your old Lightning-to-USB-A cable if you do have an older USB-A charging brick, but this about Apple making more money by selling you accessories they used to include and saving shipping costs with the smaller packaging, it's not about "the environment". :rolleyes:

Some more thoughts.

My first notched phone and I'm really hating the notch.

They should have just squared it off on the top. The few pixels they gain to the left and the right serve no functional purpose, and in fact make it impossible to show the battery meter and percentage simultaneously.

Also, Face ID just sucks. If the only new feature the 2013 iPhone 12s Pro or 13 Pro or whatever they call it, has is under glass Touch ID, I will get the new phone.

I also think that Apple's software has taken their 12MP sensor tech as far as it can go. The new software-based features are great, but the fundamental image quality at the pixel level isn't that much better than the iPhone 6/7/8/SE.

Using the phone's traditional ear speaker as a second speaker for music in order to simulate a stereo effect is interesting.

ok, you're right, I even bought a pono music player for my brother. But I did say "most people" and mentioned the exceptions in my post. We are talking about the masses here. Good luck in trying to convince the masses to carry 3 or more separate devices.

-David

I don't really care about the power brick because I have always used third-party chargers that will charge multiple devices but the absence of headphones when they no longer have a 3.5mm audio jack is annoying.

I don't think I have ever paid more than $30 for a pair of headphones in my life so I won't be buying airpods any time soon.

I do appreciate a fine camera, I bought my first Nikormat FTN in 1968. But, how much did your D7000 with your favorite lens cost, and do you still carry a smartphone while using it? The quality of phone cameras improves every year, it's one of the reasons I upgrade to the latest model every year. Also, the original Apple headphones were mediocre at best, so I will not miss them for a second. The transition to USB-C is troublesome since us Kool-Aide drinkers have a collection of traditional Apple cables and chargers. I bought a set of adapters when I got my 11" iPad Pro and that was a suitable solution. Oh, BTW I have been an Apple investor for the past 10 years, so....

I paid €200 for the body* and €95 for the Nikkor 50/1,8. €150:ish for the Tokina 11-16/2,8. Of course I have my telephone with me, how else would I make phonecalls? :) (I also have a couple of others, sometimes one gets carried away in a camera shop)

This camera have served me well for many years, no need to waste money on new phones every year for better camera function - and IMO still runs circles around any phone camera.

* actually €150 as I got €50 store credit for my old D80

That's certainly a lot less that I would have guessed from what I've heard and seen listed.

Another reason iPhone upgrades are a thing for me is the resale of last years model is generally quite high. If I postpone my upgrade, that diminishes of course. My 11 Pro Max 256Gb should net me around $700 or so, and I get a Vet discount from Apple. My new 12 Pro Max 256Gb will cost $1079 & $12 for an Amazon case. I like the idea of having a fresh battery, and the latest hardware. It's one of my many vices. Also, I don't want to be the richest person in the graveyard!

After around 8 years of being Android for both my tablet and phone, I'm contemplating switching to an iPhone 12 Pro Max (I've currently got a Samsung S20+).

I've used Samsung Tab S tablets for a long time, and they've generally been great. However, my S5e had a fingerprint sensor in the power button. This hardly ever worked, and was even worse when I had the official keyboard cover attached - as it obscured the button slightly. So, anytime I needed to authenticate, I'd end up having to type my password. The S6 had an underscreen fingerprint reader, but the S7 10 has gone back to the power button.

So... I bought an iPad Pro 10.5 to try it out. I knew I had the option of returning it if I didn't get on with it. It took me a day to realise it was great - and it wasn't going anywhere :) The Face Id is great - especially when linked to BitWarden. No entering passwords ever again.

The thing that made me move from iOS originally was the lack of customisation (without Jailbreaking). However, it appears that there's not much you can't do these days - is Jailbreaking still a thing? iOS 14 seems to have stolen the Android concept of an Apps Drawer - so you can customise you home screen and remove rarely used apps. The 'notch' is still a bit messy - but I guess that's needed for Face Id?

Anyway, I'll order one when they become available in the UK :)

Jailbreaking is alive and well. You can catch up on it at a website called iclarified.com. I had jailbroken every one of my iPhones since the 3G, but Apple adopted many of the things Jailbreaking permitted, and Apple really worked at preventing it. That made sense, since it was a flaw in the OS that a Jailbreak exploited. I haven't had a Jailbroken device since my iPad Mini 4. The only Jailbreak feature I miss is running an app called PDANet that allowed for a pass trough WiFi function. You could log on to a WiFi provider then create your own WiFi hotspot from that. Useful for paid, single device service like cruise ships and some hotels, etc. Technically theft I suppose.

That's a good point. My S20 allows me to share my Wifi.

So the iPhone 12 does not have headphone jacks. I do have airpods but often need to switch to wired headphones bc I’ve failed to charge them. In some cases prefer using over ear wired headphones (like on long flights). Does anyone else have a concern about no earphone plug?

Apple killed the 3,5mm jack a few iterations ago - good move to sell more Bluetooth earbuds and/or lightning-3,5mm dongles. Otherwise a dick move, same as their current laptop lineup with nothing but a few usb-c plugs.

I had the chance yesterday to compare my 12 Pro to a buddy’s flagship Galaxy, and while the 12 Pro not only stands up, in IMO it is clearly the better device overall. But there is one area where it falls on its face.

I understand that Apple says they made a choice of 5G over a 120 Hz refresh rate screen because of concerns over battery life [the 12 has a smaller battery then the 11, though some believe Apple went with 60 Hz again because they couldn’t secured a supply chain capable of delivering enough 120 Hz panels in time to satisfy initial demand], but man can you tell the difference.

I was actually surprised at just how much smoother 120 Hz on a phone would be when compared to 60 Hz. Even if you concede that Apple’s 60 Hz panels are better and smoother than anyone else’s, the difference compared to 120 Hz is stark.

Scrolling and swiping on a 120 Hz panel is liquid and lightning fast. Side-by-side, scrolling on a 60 Hz panel feels slow and jerky by comparison.

Apple removed the headphone jack in the iPhone 7 which shipped with lightning headphones and dongle which can be used with the iPhone 12.

Other theory is that they couldn't secure enough supplies of the ProMotion-compatible displays this year. iPhone ships in much higher volumes than the Samsung.

I have AirPods Pro and managed to take one intercontinental trip (to New Zealand) in December. But I knew going in that it obviously wouldn't make that whole trip on one charge so I had two other pairs of bluetooth headphones, one an Anker and another Chinese no-name brand.

Only AirPods Pro had ANC. But the other ones gave a good seal, out of the box so I tend to use headphones as earplugs even when I'm not playing anything on them. So I mostly go for in-ear headphones.

Basically I used the AirPods Pro and then switched to one of the other ones while I recharged the APP. Then swapped it back again while charging the other ones.


As I wrote another thread, Qualcomm is about to push through adaptive ANC, similar to what APP does, with constant sampling and adjustments. They will probably be used on name brand earbuds, like maybe Jabra and other similar brands which will price their brands on par or even higher than the APP.

But I've found that good in-ear BT buds, which go for $30 and up, will reduce sound enough on flights.

No. Good riddance. I switched to bluetooth headphones years ago and never looked back. Hate the cord entanglement, getting in the way of stuff, microphonics, etc. All the modern wireless headphones have battery life longer than the playing the device (phone). So if you can charge the phone on the flight, you can charge the headphone (which also charge much faster due to lower capacity).

But, if you want, you can also buy a data to 3.5mm dongle

I’m so stupid. I didn’t realize they’d still make the charging port an alternate headphone jack. 😑. I have an 11 and that’s what I do. Doesn’t the 12 have a new port?

No new port but the iPhone 12 ships with a lightning cable which has a UCB-C connector instead of a USB-A connector. No USB-C power block is included.