Is an airplane "hackable?"
#31
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,724
Interesting.
One of the advantages of the US Air Force is the modern avionics in the aircraft.
Wonder Russians and Chinese don't try to hack them in addition to US businesses and govt networks.
One of the advantages of the US Air Force is the modern avionics in the aircraft.
Wonder Russians and Chinese don't try to hack them in addition to US businesses and govt networks.
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist



Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ORD
Posts: 14,771
#33
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,724
True.
I guess we won't ever know until we get into a war with one of these countries.
But there are a lot of countries which have been defeated in large part due to US air supremacy in various theaters. Surprising that nobody looked for a way to hack or hire Eastern European hackers to try.
I guess we won't ever know until we get into a war with one of these countries.
But there are a lot of countries which have been defeated in large part due to US air supremacy in various theaters. Surprising that nobody looked for a way to hack or hire Eastern European hackers to try.
#34


Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Loud, dark, warm, lots of ethernet cables, and in some rack space.
Programs: AA:EXP
Posts: 370
Here's my scoop as an engineer, it's not possible. We still guide jets around with missiles if they go rogue into another part of the country. If such an aircraft was hijacked by a man, they can't call the nearest OnStar and say to safely guide it. They just do not have the systems in place to do so.
Most aircraft still run on cables, pulleys, and highly reliable computers that are way behind on technology. I say highly reliable considering cars cannot have that newest and the greatest GPU, CPU, and motherboard from Tiger Direct. It has to be reliable since it is carrying human lives, now apply that to an airplane. No, aircraft are not up to date with today's technology of wifi and satellite downlink of high amounts of data to the on-board controls. It is more than likely MH370 was 20+ years old running on the usual fly by cable and pulley system.
Most aircraft still run on cables, pulleys, and highly reliable computers that are way behind on technology. I say highly reliable considering cars cannot have that newest and the greatest GPU, CPU, and motherboard from Tiger Direct. It has to be reliable since it is carrying human lives, now apply that to an airplane. No, aircraft are not up to date with today's technology of wifi and satellite downlink of high amounts of data to the on-board controls. It is more than likely MH370 was 20+ years old running on the usual fly by cable and pulley system.
#35
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
Rather than requiring an Internet or other network connection for a disabling hack, there are other ways to design disabling features in the hardware and/or software systems that can work without an online computer to computer network connection
Last edited by GUWonder; Dec 23, 2014 at 8:48 pm
#36
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,724
I guess if the Terminator movies were made now, they wouldn't try to go back in time to prevent Skynet from being made.
They'd try to hack it, though that's not as sexy as all the action scenes.
They'd try to hack it, though that's not as sexy as all the action scenes.
#38
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 164
The greatest danger is not hacking the plane, but hacking the navigational systems that the plane relies on. It is trivially easy to hack signals from GPS, FAA NextGen (ADS-B), and ACARS.
The good thing is the redundancy of pilots in the cockpit. They know what the plane should be doing and where it is going, and will notice things like bank angle changes and altitude changes.
The In Flight Entertainment systems are not permitted to be connected to the flight control and management systems, or else the IFE must be certified to the level of the flight management/control systems. So there's an economic disincentive to connect the two.
Plus in IFE WiFi systems are completely airgapped from the rest of the airplane.
All that said, I have seen hacking systems that can even defeat an airgap to gain information (I have not seen one yet to push information), so I will never say that it cannot be done. It's just going to be very, very hard. Especially as there are so many versions of the various FMSs and FCSs in the wild, so you would have to attack one specific block of one specific model, with one specific carrier's specs.
The good thing is the redundancy of pilots in the cockpit. They know what the plane should be doing and where it is going, and will notice things like bank angle changes and altitude changes.
The In Flight Entertainment systems are not permitted to be connected to the flight control and management systems, or else the IFE must be certified to the level of the flight management/control systems. So there's an economic disincentive to connect the two.
Plus in IFE WiFi systems are completely airgapped from the rest of the airplane.
All that said, I have seen hacking systems that can even defeat an airgap to gain information (I have not seen one yet to push information), so I will never say that it cannot be done. It's just going to be very, very hard. Especially as there are so many versions of the various FMSs and FCSs in the wild, so you would have to attack one specific block of one specific model, with one specific carrier's specs.
#39
Original Poster




Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: HA, UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,809
All that said, I have seen hacking systems that can even defeat an airgap to gain information (I have not seen one yet to push information), so I will never say that it cannot be done. It's just going to be very, very hard. Especially as there are so many versions of the various FMSs and FCSs in the wild, so you would have to attack one specific block of one specific model, with one specific carrier's specs.
#40
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,724
GAO issues report citing cybersecurity experts on the vulnerabilities of airliners:
http://arstechnica.com/security/2015...nk-to-hackers/
http://arstechnica.com/security/2015...nk-to-hackers/
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist



Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ORD
Posts: 14,771
Yeah, I posted and it was moved to Travel News.
I maintain that this is 99.8% pointless fearmongering and hand wringing about "what could happen". Monkeys COULD fly out of my butt, too, but I'm not betting on it.
I maintain that this is 99.8% pointless fearmongering and hand wringing about "what could happen". Monkeys COULD fly out of my butt, too, but I'm not betting on it.
#42
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,439
#43


Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: Aeroplan, AAdvantage
Posts: 2,107
Really I'm not into fearmongering but if what you want is downing an airplane then get an SA-18 and boom! Those things are frighteningly easy to get these days. Much more realistic than hacking into an airplane esp from remote.
I think you could hack into the airplane if you get to the right wires and those are not impossible to get to -- I remember reading how you could get to the satellite transponder from a cabinet close to business class on the MH370 -- but I would think that if someone walks to a cupboard, plugs in a laptop then the FAs will have a word or two with said person...
Edt: http://www.wired.com/2015/04/hackers...ssenger-wi-fi/ today.
I think you could hack into the airplane if you get to the right wires and those are not impossible to get to -- I remember reading how you could get to the satellite transponder from a cabinet close to business class on the MH370 -- but I would think that if someone walks to a cupboard, plugs in a laptop then the FAs will have a word or two with said person...
Edt: http://www.wired.com/2015/04/hackers...ssenger-wi-fi/ today.
Last edited by chx1975; Apr 15, 2015 at 7:17 pm
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Sep 2000
Programs: BA, AA, DL, KLM, UA
Posts: 37,489
"The experts said that if the cabin systems connect to the cockpit avionics systems (e.g., share the same physical wiring harness or router) and use the same networking platform, in this case IP, a user could subvert the firewall and access the cockpit avionics system from the cabin," the report added. An FAA official cited in the report said additional security controls implemented onboard could strengthen the system.
#45
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,724
It may be in the interests of the security experts to overestimate the potential for hacks.
There's also a lot of talk about self-driving cars being hacked and driving controls being used for nefarious purposes too.
There's also a lot of talk about self-driving cars being hacked and driving controls being used for nefarious purposes too.

