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Originally Posted by CUTiger78
As a trained accident investigator who currently works for a civil aviation regulatory authority (three letters ... starts with F....), it never ceases to amaze me when I read statements, such as the following, from aviation "experts":
Quote: "...Christine Negroni, an investigator for the aviation law firm Kreindler & Kreindler of New York, said in an e-mail that under international guidelines the Legacy should not have been at an odd-numbered altitude because it was heading northwest. ''All westbound flights fly at even numbers with 1,000 feet separation. East bound flights fly at odd numbers, same 1,000 separation,'' she said. ''Since the American pilots were flying northwest, they should not have been at 37,000 since that's odd.'' |
Originally Posted by mHolanda
Strange that on Sharkey's interview, he says something about the boing tilting to one side in order to avoid the crash. How come the boing saw the legacy and not the other way around?
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Victims’ Families Criticize Secrecy of Brazil Air Crash Inquiry
The New York Times has an article today on the accident investigation. Because the investigation is being carried out by the Brazilian military rather than an independent agency such as our NTSB, not all of the records may be made public. Also, the military runs the ATC for Brazil, so there is a potential conflict of interest.
Aviation experts, victims’ families and the Brazilian public were criticizing the investigation for what they said was a lack of transparency and questioning whether the full story of the accident would ever be known. ... But technical investigators, led by the Brazilian Air Force, have disclosed few details beyond what has become the basic thesis as others have been ruled out: that the business jet, an Embraer Legacy just picked up from its Brazilian manufacturer, clipped the wing of the Boeing in midflight over the Amazon rainforest. ... The authorities have not said whether wreckage or other evidence supports that thesis or a related possibility that the Boeing’s crew had lost control of the aircraft in an abrupt maneuver to avoid the Legacy. Despite plans by the authorities to issue a preliminary report soon, final conclusions about the crash and its causes will not be released until the investigation is completed, a process expected to take many months. Coupled with a missing piece of crucial evidence — the part of the recorder that stored the Boeing’s cockpit sounds, which is lost in the rainforest — the lack of public information has led to rampant speculation, complaints from victims’ families and finger-pointing at the American pilots, who have had their passports confiscated and remain in Brazil for questioning. “The investigation is far too secretive,” said Luciana Siqueira, a sister of one of the victims and a member of a committee of family members seeking access to information through Brazil’s public defender. “None of us knows anything.” |
Gee -- I'd not heard that one of the flight recorders had not been recovered yet.
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Originally Posted by ChicagoBound
What an unbelievable story. I just read it at the Times' website and came here to see if there are posts about it. It's a little disappointing to hear comments about how "dreadful" a guy is who just survived a near-death experience. I greatly enjoy Sharkey's column. Maybe I'm biased because he quoted me twice in 2003 and 2004 (I have the columns framed about my desk at work), but I think his column is very good.
It is truly an amazing story to hear about surviving an airplane crash or mid-air collision. I heard about that same story often as a kid because my dad was the sole survivor of a private plane crash that killed five people. I guess I'd be a little disappointed if people were heaping criticism on my dad just days after he survived something like this. |
Originally Posted by PTravel
I had a personal run-in with Sharkey here on FT that wound up making it in to his column, albeit without identifying me (smart thing for Sharkey). My personal opinion: he's a jackass. That doesn't mean I would have been pleased if he had been hurt or killed in the incident -- I'm glad he came through it okay. It must have been a horrible experience, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. However, that doesn't change my opinion of him one iota -- he's still a jackass.
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Most members seem to have already made the decision that the Legacy "hit" the Boeing. No one has used the wording that the 737 "hit" the Legacy. Why should that be? It would be more fair at this point to say that the two planes hit each other until it is officially decided which aircraft was actually at fault.
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Originally Posted by justageek
You'd best not say stuff like that around here. I said a couple of weeks ago on the TS&S forum thread on this topic merely that his columns are boring, and was roundly attacked for doing so. Apparently FT is the Joe Sharkey fan club.
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Report Blames Tower Error in Plane Crash
:( :(
November 3, 2006 - 6:34AM A jet's American pilots were told by Brazilian air traffic control to fly at the same altitude as a Boeing 737 before the planes collided, killing all aboard the second plane, it was reported. The flight recorder transcript from the executive jet involved in Brazil's worst air disaster shows that the jet's American pilots were told by Brazilian air traffic control to fly at the same altitude as the Boeing 737 before the planes collided over the Amazon rainforest, the Folha de S Paulo newspaper reported. http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Rep...340014403.html |
Things are looking better for the Legacy pilots. So many strange things in the way this whole investigation has been handled. Controllers here would not be able to avoid questioning about a mid-air for a month and a half; they wouldn't be able to avoid it for a day.
RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil (AP) -- Ten flight controllers have said they are under psychiatric treatment and declined to be questioned by federal police about a September 29 midair collision that killed 154 people in Brazil's worst air disaster, the government news service reported Tuesday. A Boeing 737-800 of Gol Linhas Aereas Inteligentes SA, Brazil's No. 2 airline, collided with a Brazilian-made Legacy 600 executive jet over the Amazon jungle of Mato Grosso state. All 154 people aboard the Boeing were killed, while the Legacy landed safely at a nearby air force base. Federal police inspector Renato Sayao had planned to question the flight controllers, who were assigned to airports in Manaus, in the western Amazon jungle, and Brasilia, the central capital, but the Brazilian Air Force said they were flight controllers were under psychiatric treatment until November 13, Agencia Brasil reported. The flight data recorders of both planes were analyzed in Canada but the cause of the collision has not yet been announced. The temporary suspension of the flight controllers forced the Air Force and the National Agency of Civil Aviation led to personnel shortages and delays of up to seven hours in flights from the cities of Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paulo, Belo Horizonte and Brasilia. According to the Estado news agency, small planes and executive jets could not take off, land or fly over those cities during peak traffic hours. The ban does not cover emergency medical flights or military or presidential flights, the agency said. Air travel is expected to increase this week because of Brazil's Memorial Day holiday on Thursday. |
Not to be a drag, but has there been any word on the American pilots and whether they are being released after this new information has come to light?
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Gee, I don't see many chest pumping Brasilians around these days do I??
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Originally Posted by venice4504
Not to be a drag, but has there been any word on the American pilots and whether they are being released after this new information has come to light?
In related news, according to CNN: Meanwhile, a work slowdown by air traffic controllers has provoked severe flight delays across Brazil. The controllers have complained that they are understaffed, overworked and underpaid despite robust Brazilian commercial flight growth, and that extra safety precautions imposed after the deadly collision are yet another reason to improve working conditions. |
Pilots from Amazon collision stuck in emotional, legal limbo
AP article in Seattle Times
Two American pilots involved in Brazil's worst air disaster have been virtual prisoners since the crash, isolating themselves in their hotel rooms just steps from Copacabana beach, their lawyer said Friday. The two men face possible criminal charges in the accident and remain in the odd emotional limbo reserved for the few people lucky enough to have a collision in the sky and live to talk about it. Not that they talk much — Joseph Lepore, 42, of Bay Shore, N.Y., and Jan Paladino, 34, of Westhampton Beach, N.Y., have tried to avoid discussing their feelings about the Sept. 29 collision, their lawyer said Friday. |
Looks like the victims' families are going to sue two of the US companies involved with the crash:
US firms sued over Brazil crash Families of 10 of the victims of Brazil's worst air disaster have filed a US federal lawsuit against two American firms, alleging negligence. In September, an American executive jet collided with a Brazilian passenger plane, killing all 154 people on board. The suit names ExcelAire which operated the US jet, and Honeywell, which made some of the plane's safety equipment. |
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