this guy should buy a lotto ticket!

If the larger jet were ascending to a higher flight level from 35K that would certainly explain why they were aware of the embraer first and tried to maneuver around it. The nose of the smaller jet would simply have prevented the pilots from seeing directly below them and they would've been completely unaware (which seems to be the case here).

Regards,
-Bouncer-

Let's hope that's just an online thing and not reflective of wider public opinion in Brazil.

I think it's reasonable to keep the pilots in Brazil during the investigation. It's quite possible they would have decided to leave Brazil and never return. While it's easy for me to say, I can't believe they'd face any prison time for negligence (and, of course, I have no idea if they were negligent).

There's a very interesting thread on this incident at PPRUNE

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=246031

(pointed out by a poster on a thread on this same topic on OMNI)

Depending on how much you believe in conspiracy theories, there may (or may not) be a lot more to this story than meets the eye. Just for starters (and it gets much more weird from here), how do we even know these two aircraft collided?

On a relatively unrelated note, I am very worried that the US pilots are not going to be given a fair shake by the Brazilian government. Not that the US government have a stellar track record for how it treats folks it picks up in foreign countries (!!!), but that's not really the issue here. If you read between the lines in what Sharkey has said, I think he's very concerned too.

But the photos of the plane shows damage to the top portions of the wing and tail,so one might believe that they were lower

For starters, the 737 went down in the same area, shortly after the smaller plane hit something substantial. That's a heck of a start.

But wait -- that's only what they want us to believe....

Those comments weren't there when I posted this on Monday (apparently I found it right after it was posted).


It's an online thing, where one bozo can make a lot of noise.

I raise question of it potentially being reflective of wider public opinion now that it's been announced the pilots are facing potential criminal prosecution for manslaughter (on Fox News this afternoon).

Typically it takes several months, if not longer in many cases to find all the causes of an air disaster. It's been about a week and Brazil is already talking of charging the pilots with manslaughter and bringing about a criminal prosecution.

I think it's reasonable the pilots stick around to assist, but if I were in the pilots shoes (knowing they could be held criminally responsible and face prison time), I would probably have thoughts about leaving the country too.

I also get the impression the Brazilian Authorities are turning this political and trying to find fault, especially since two American pilots were involved and survived. Will they get a fair go in Brazil? When Joe Sharkey made the comment about the pilots fate, I believe he had some real concern reading into the comments.

Anyone know if Boeing or if the NTSB has gotten involved with the investigation to "assist" the Brazilian authorities? I believe Boeing, at the very least would have an interest. It seems in Brazil, like many other nations, pilots can be held criminally responsible.

Several years ago there was a mid-air collision over Germany, IIRC. The aircraft were under control of a Swiss ATC centre where the controller made a mistake. The ATC controller was held criminally responsible for his mistake - but the ATC controller was eventually murdered by a distressed family member.

SDF_Traveler

I believe Sharkey's article said that both Boeing and the NTSB are getting involved. Boeing because the 737 is their product. The NTSB because the 737 is an American design and because the Embraer was registered in the US.

A family friend is one of Boeing's investigators. He is on his way to Brasil later this week. He has mentioned that he is "catch up" with some of his counterparts but wouldn't really say much more.

Two political complications here: election runoff coming up soon in Brazil, and Embraer, a Brazillian company, would surely like very much to find that there was no technical flaw in its product.

Not exactly. This August, a Swiss prosecutor filed manslaughter charges against higher-ups at Skyguide, the private company that provided the ATC services, for their involvement due to staffing problems, equipment issues, etc. The controller, Peter Nielsen, never faced criminal charges as the incompetence of Skyguide managers and equipment failures were determined to be the cause of the crash.

Sad story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashkir...es_Flight_2937

True ... but it looks like the pilots of the Embraer might have caused the accident ...

From NY Times:

From the NYTimes:
Very frequently, planes are allowed to fly at the "wrong" altitude for a variety of reasons. I flew all across Canada at the "wrong" altitude recently. We changed when we started getting to a more congested area. I know controllers who use the "wrong" altitudes frequently. The flight plan doesn't really matter either. What matters is what altitude ATC told the plane to be at.

I am curious if they only had primary radar on the private plane and the transponder was turned off. If the controllers saw the altitudes on both planes and saw them coming together, surely they could have (would have) issued directions to the 737, even if not in radio contact with the other plane.

This is just curiosity, speculation and things my ATC husband and I were wondering about over breakfast today. It will be interesting to find out what the tapes reveal.