Declining Tourism to the US
Apr 13, 2012, 12:09 pm
#91
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,778
I don't believe the decline in "market share" has ANYTHING to do with "hostility," whatever that means. It is simply a fact that the world is getting smaller, and it is cheaper and easier to travel to destinations that would once be truly expensive or difficult to reach. Many travelers seek the new, and so they seek out these newly open destinations. There's nothing you can do about that. We have to share the market with everybody else. The more tourist infrastructure there is throughout the world, the more people feel confident about traveling to a destination they might have once feared. Also, there's a "me too" mentality that probably dilutes market share for non unique destinations. Do you really need to go to California to visit Disneyland, if you can go to the one in Paris? Does anyone care that you went to Vegas like everybody else, or should you consider Macau? Not to mention all the little countries with no $ who figure they'll just make their fortune having all inclusive beach resorts. That kind of tourist doesn't care where they go as long as it's cheap. Should the USA compete with them on price? I don't think so!
I think your comments make an assumption that the pool of travellers is static. Newer destinations are new only for existing pool of travellers. More travellers enter the pool every year, for whom every destination is "new". What's exotic for you, is ordinary for some and what's next door for you would be exotic for others. Some of the "reasons" you mention are at play I am sure, but a 35% drop has more than such minor reasons as basis.
Whether we should do anything to increase travel to the U.S. is matter of economic necessity. If our travel industry, as well as economy were doing well, we would not be reading articles such as the one this thread is based on. It's not just tourists who travel. There are students, businessmen, diplomats, dignitaries, scientists, artists and performers who travel around the world. There has been a decline in some of these prominent categories which is directly traceable to border harassment. Students now go to Australia, and New Zealand, instead coming to the U.S. Some of these travellers would be repeat travellers that we have lost.
Apr 13, 2012, 4:25 pm
#92
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 185
No what I am saying, and I know this to be a fact, is that he intentionally caused problems at immigration upon his arrival, specifically so that he could be detained and questioned more solely for the purpose of promoting his upcoming movie, my Name Is Khan, which "coincidentally" dealt with some of the exact same issues. So if after he and his people arranged this publicity stunt two years ago DHS might have now put something in their computer that is IS in fact a troublemaker (not Muslim, not terrorist, not Indian, but just an a88hole) it might be understandable, Much like how Snoop can now travel to the Uk again, but undergoes at least an hour of scrutiny each time (and not based on what charges he may have had filed against him, but because he and his possee acted as such troublesome a88holes once upon a time).
As for Saudis traveling to the US, the upper middle class and above Saudis that traveled to the US pre 9/11 still travel to the US in the same numbers and percentages (although I am sure that many of the Bin laden clan now avoid it). Malaysia has gotten a huge number of cheap Saudi package tourists, witness the hoards of them descending on Langkawi over the last ten years..........these people never were travelers to the US in the first place. Furthermore among the slightly more wealthy packs of male Saudi youth looking for hookers and drugs, their destination was rarely if ever the US.
As for Saudis traveling to the US, the upper middle class and above Saudis that traveled to the US pre 9/11 still travel to the US in the same numbers and percentages (although I am sure that many of the Bin laden clan now avoid it). Malaysia has gotten a huge number of cheap Saudi package tourists, witness the hoards of them descending on Langkawi over the last ten years..........these people never were travelers to the US in the first place. Furthermore among the slightly more wealthy packs of male Saudi youth looking for hookers and drugs, their destination was rarely if ever the US.
Apr 13, 2012, 4:56 pm
#93
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,352
No, as I said, i know what I am talking about, but sorry, I am not going to explain further on a public bulletin board, just because you challenge me. My integrity and the veracity of my statements are pretty well respected on FT and have been for about 13 years. So no, I will not further elaborate on the SRK thing for you.
Regarding Saudi numbers there are a host of numbers that you can go search and review if it bothers you so much. The big difference in Saudi tourism since 9/11 is essentially that Saudi taxi drivers now go on honeymoons, and that they do so abroad, mostly to SE Asia these days, and mostly on cheap packages, this was not much of a market 15 or even 10 years ago.
Regarding Saudi numbers there are a host of numbers that you can go search and review if it bothers you so much. The big difference in Saudi tourism since 9/11 is essentially that Saudi taxi drivers now go on honeymoons, and that they do so abroad, mostly to SE Asia these days, and mostly on cheap packages, this was not much of a market 15 or even 10 years ago.
Apr 13, 2012, 6:24 pm
#94
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Singapore
Programs: UA Premier Gold
Posts: 35
I get the most unpleasant treatment I get anywhere in the world, when entering the US, and I am also a US citizen. (FWIW, I am a European pretty much every else in the world.) I don't know whether I am suspicious looking or not.
Apr 13, 2012, 6:39 pm
#95
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 185
No, as I said, i know what I am talking about, but sorry, I am not going to explain further on a public bulletin board, just because you challenge me. My integrity and the veracity of my statements are pretty well respected on FT and have been for about 13 years. So no, I will not further elaborate on the SRK thing for you.
Nah, doesn't bother me in the least; it was something that you brought up, I merely assumed that you'd have the data to hand since it appears to be one of your areas of expertise.
Apr 13, 2012, 7:09 pm
#96
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,352
In 2000, the year BEFORE 9/11 and with "visa express" in existence, whereby most Saudis had no interview for their visas, less than 69,000 Saudis applied for visas and their approval rating for visas was above 90%, it took on average about a week for them to get visas.
In 2003, the number was something like 20,000 for the year as that was a particular low point, and there was a much higher refusal rate (I cannot find it).
But in 2005 the number increased to around 50,000 issued.
By the end of 2007 the numbers EXCEEDED the 2000 pre-9/11 numbers ad went above 70,000 for the year.
And guess what? In 2011 slightly more that 102,000 visas were issued to Saudis, the approval rate was over 93% and over 75% received them within a week.
This is a number about 40% HIGHER than pre-9/11, the refusal rate is in line with and better than many countries which are not Muslim nor Arab, and the timing is overall than many other places around the World.
Furthermore there are more Saudis studying in the US than at anytime EVER in the past, more Saudis visiting for business and in fact more coming for touristic purposes. What may have been true for a few years 2002-2007 is not at all any longer true.
In 2003, the number was something like 20,000 for the year as that was a particular low point, and there was a much higher refusal rate (I cannot find it).
But in 2005 the number increased to around 50,000 issued.
By the end of 2007 the numbers EXCEEDED the 2000 pre-9/11 numbers ad went above 70,000 for the year.
And guess what? In 2011 slightly more that 102,000 visas were issued to Saudis, the approval rate was over 93% and over 75% received them within a week.
This is a number about 40% HIGHER than pre-9/11, the refusal rate is in line with and better than many countries which are not Muslim nor Arab, and the timing is overall than many other places around the World.
Furthermore there are more Saudis studying in the US than at anytime EVER in the past, more Saudis visiting for business and in fact more coming for touristic purposes. What may have been true for a few years 2002-2007 is not at all any longer true.
Last edited by cblaisd; Apr 13, 2012 at 7:27 pm Reason: Removed personal attack per the TOS
Apr 13, 2012, 7:27 pm
#97
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Time out.
cblaisd, Moderator, Travel News
cblaisd, Moderator, Travel News