Declining Tourism to the US
Apr 6, 2012, 1:50 pm
#46
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Apparently, Sen. Harry Reid's solution to declining international visitors in LAS is to have TSA employees say "Hello"...
Apr 10, 2012, 4:29 am
#47
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Many reasons for the decline
I guess especially for European travelers there are many reasons not to go to the US no more. 10 to 15 years ago when planning a vacation there was always
Florida, Hawaii or New York very high on my priority list. But due to ridiculous "safety procedures" like no more than 4 people waiting in front of a bathroom in an airplane to the US, dumb interrogation before boarding a flight, having to wait up to 90 minutes at immigration and being asked by officers who seem to have had no school education or who are outright rude, like the one in SFO who asked me how Europeans can afford to go to Hawaii while he can´t. Nude scanners while passing through US airports, uncivilized TSA-employees. On top of that George W. Bush and his policies on "homeland" security haven´t helped in bringing in more tourists either, unfortunately there was no real change since Obama is in office. I was actually checking out hotel rates for New York city (for May, July or September) the other day and 300€ plus per night for a mediocre hotel room made the decision not to go there very easy, as for the same price I will get 2 nights at a deluxe hotel anywhere in Asia.
Florida, Hawaii or New York very high on my priority list. But due to ridiculous "safety procedures" like no more than 4 people waiting in front of a bathroom in an airplane to the US, dumb interrogation before boarding a flight, having to wait up to 90 minutes at immigration and being asked by officers who seem to have had no school education or who are outright rude, like the one in SFO who asked me how Europeans can afford to go to Hawaii while he can´t. Nude scanners while passing through US airports, uncivilized TSA-employees. On top of that George W. Bush and his policies on "homeland" security haven´t helped in bringing in more tourists either, unfortunately there was no real change since Obama is in office. I was actually checking out hotel rates for New York city (for May, July or September) the other day and 300€ plus per night for a mediocre hotel room made the decision not to go there very easy, as for the same price I will get 2 nights at a deluxe hotel anywhere in Asia.
Apr 10, 2012, 4:54 am
#48
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But you will not get much, and possibly much less in many European capitals, go get me the rates for Paris, London or Rome for similar dates and hotels and get back to me. Yes you can get an absolutely palatial hotel suite in Kuala Lumpur for much less, and when I actually have to go there I enjoy it..........but one must get there in the first place. Nude scanners? You mean the same type that i have seen in at least 20 other countries around the World, the difference being that most of them have had no debate and there are no safeguards on what happens to the data or how it is viewed? Have you not gone through security in many a European airport where it is roughly the same as the US?
Apr 10, 2012, 5:27 am
#49
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Asia and Europe get my dollars these days when I take a vacation, and that of most of my friends. This despite the decline of the US dollar which makes it a very cheap destination for me.
I used to visit the US quite regularly, but I won't even consider it again until the security theatre there stops. Security is not like that in most other countries despite what the occasional apologist might try to say to the contrary.
Apr 10, 2012, 6:24 am
#50
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My informal and unscientific survey: I asked a my coworkers that have not been to the U.S. on vacation why they have not gone. Their answer: it's too expensive. They'd rather go to destinations where their Euro goes much further.
Apr 10, 2012, 6:56 am
#51
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While the TSA annoys me, I've learnt to deal with them but still opt out.
It's the Immigration staff that have started to annoy me.
Why do you travel to the US so often? What do you plan to do while you are here? How much money do you have on you? Do you know anyone in the US?
Who do work for? Which is followed up with, So where is the meeting you are attending? What meeting? I told you I'm here on Tourism.
Then there are the random and false misleading replys to the answers trying to trick you out.
Shez, yes my passport is littered with US stamps, yes I always leave the country on time and it's really none of your business how I can afford the ticket.
Last trip I had to do the full 10 fingers again, loooooong time since I had to do that.
So it seems, if you travel the first time, get harassed. Travel too often get harassed.
Seems like there is a no win to the USA.
It's the Immigration staff that have started to annoy me.
Why do you travel to the US so often? What do you plan to do while you are here? How much money do you have on you? Do you know anyone in the US?
Who do work for? Which is followed up with, So where is the meeting you are attending? What meeting? I told you I'm here on Tourism.
Then there are the random and false misleading replys to the answers trying to trick you out.
Shez, yes my passport is littered with US stamps, yes I always leave the country on time and it's really none of your business how I can afford the ticket.
Last trip I had to do the full 10 fingers again, loooooong time since I had to do that.
So it seems, if you travel the first time, get harassed. Travel too often get harassed.
Seems like there is a no win to the USA.
Apr 10, 2012, 7:08 am
#52
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I get somewhat similar treatment when I return to the U.S. to visit family, and I'm a U.S. citizen. And I'm not suspicious looking.
Where did you come from? What do you do? Why are you there and not here? How long will you be here? Why do you hate America? Etc.
My wife gets it even worse when she travels back alone and she has to explain what she is doing living in Europe with no job, why am I not with her, what do I do, etc.
Where did you come from? What do you do? Why are you there and not here? How long will you be here? Why do you hate America? Etc.
My wife gets it even worse when she travels back alone and she has to explain what she is doing living in Europe with no job, why am I not with her, what do I do, etc.
Apr 10, 2012, 7:13 am
#53
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US citizens abroad seem to get a lot more hassle from passport control types in the US than most citizens of OECD countries get if returning to their respective (OECD) country of citizenship. When US citizens justifiably feel unnecessarily hassled, foreign citizens have no more reason to be confident in being treated any better at a US port of entry than returning US citizens. Fortunately, most people don't face much hassle whatsoever other than the long waste of time that is too often part of the US arrival picture.
Are most of those individuals people who take charter tour/tour packages? I am not a fan of them (and have never taken one) although the prices do seem to be very cheap if heading to most of the kinds of places being marketed by European charter operators/package tour companies.
Those packages are rather poor value when it comes to heading to the US or other developed countries. Generally the US is a bargain value relative to comparable places in other developed countries and even some major cities and prime destinations in developing countries.
The US has (often deservedly so) been getting some negative PR -- including by word of mouth, tabloid tales, news articles, etc. -- about how passengers/visitors are handled in the US and other things, and it is such that the negative PR -- in conjunction with increased global awareness of alternatives to the US -- leads to people who could travel to the US (or elsewhere) not traveling to the US. It's not enough to stop the growth in visitor counts to the US, but it's not generally helping the US to reclaim lost marketshare either.
Those packages are rather poor value when it comes to heading to the US or other developed countries. Generally the US is a bargain value relative to comparable places in other developed countries and even some major cities and prime destinations in developing countries.
The US has (often deservedly so) been getting some negative PR -- including by word of mouth, tabloid tales, news articles, etc. -- about how passengers/visitors are handled in the US and other things, and it is such that the negative PR -- in conjunction with increased global awareness of alternatives to the US -- leads to people who could travel to the US (or elsewhere) not traveling to the US. It's not enough to stop the growth in visitor counts to the US, but it's not generally helping the US to reclaim lost marketshare either.
Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 10, 2012 at 11:44 am
Apr 10, 2012, 11:57 am
#55
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It's as if they expect the "teeming hordes" of foreigners to attempt to storm their way out of the airport at any moment... lol...
Apr 11, 2012, 5:18 am
#56
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Very good point, HKG_Flyer. It is beyond ridiculous AND contibutes enormously to boost the power trip mentality.
Apr 11, 2012, 5:32 am
#57
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And the show (must not) goes on . . .
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/11/ar...rformers.html?
For some categories, it can be even worse.
Of particular irrationality, is the clause that you can only apply for this VISA after a contract was signed - but fulfillment of such contract is subject to the obtainement of a VISA.
Also note:
i) the costs of such an application
ii) the "union" fee
iii) the role of the (secret) no-fly list
How can a country with such founding principles as the US also have secret laws? For us who have grown-up with the US in the role of a bastion of liberty it is beyond belief . . .
For some categories, it can be even worse.
Of particular irrationality, is the clause that you can only apply for this VISA after a contract was signed - but fulfillment of such contract is subject to the obtainement of a VISA.
Also note:
i) the costs of such an application
ii) the "union" fee
iii) the role of the (secret) no-fly list
How can a country with such founding principles as the US also have secret laws? For us who have grown-up with the US in the role of a bastion of liberty it is beyond belief . . .
Apr 11, 2012, 6:02 am
#58
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/11/ar...rformers.html?
For some categories, it can be even worse.
Of particular irrationality, is the clause that you can only apply for this VISA after a contract was signed - but fulfillment of such contract is subject to the obtainement of a VISA.
Also note:
i) the costs of such an application
ii) the "union" fee
iii) the role of the (secret) no-fly list
How can a country with such founding principles as the US also have secret laws? For us who have grown-up with the US in the role of a bastion of liberty it is beyond belief . . .
For some categories, it can be even worse.
Of particular irrationality, is the clause that you can only apply for this VISA after a contract was signed - but fulfillment of such contract is subject to the obtainement of a VISA.
Also note:
i) the costs of such an application
ii) the "union" fee
iii) the role of the (secret) no-fly list
How can a country with such founding principles as the US also have secret laws? For us who have grown-up with the US in the role of a bastion of liberty it is beyond belief . . .
We have some European (ethnic majority) attorneys who no longer travel to the US for vacation as they used to in prior decades because now they have significant others who are ethnic and/or religious minorities (in their European country of residence and/or citizenship). They have concerns that they (and/or their significant others) would end up with a problem on arrival in the US even if their significant others get a US visa and/or ESTA approved. Given what has happened to some of them on arrival in the US, it is a well-justified concern.
Apr 11, 2012, 6:18 am
#59
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HKG FLYER, worse, fly through Canadian airports and not only do they all pack sidearms but they are all wearing large and obvious external bullet proof vests!
Apr 11, 2012, 8:02 am
#60
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The Canadian equivalent of CBP chose to make wearing bulletproof vests part of the uniform and they pushed for years for the Canadian government to fund the purchases of such vests; they got funded starting around 12-14 years ago IIRC.
The Canadian version of the CBP wanted to be even more like their US colleagues and also got handguns around 5 years ago, part of the excuse being that US surface border crossings are "dangerous" because of the high prevalence of guns in the US.
I find the whole bulletproof vest and handgun show at the airport passport control desks to be: (a) interesting theater; and (b) a sign of governmental lack of confidence even in those also in charge of domestic "security" screening (of planes, of cargo & cabin baggage, of passengers and flight crew members).
The Canadian version of the CBP wanted to be even more like their US colleagues and also got handguns around 5 years ago, part of the excuse being that US surface border crossings are "dangerous" because of the high prevalence of guns in the US.
I find the whole bulletproof vest and handgun show at the airport passport control desks to be: (a) interesting theater; and (b) a sign of governmental lack of confidence even in those also in charge of domestic "security" screening (of planes, of cargo & cabin baggage, of passengers and flight crew members).