Changing diapers
Aug 25, 2006 | 7:43 pm
#31
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If I had a child still in diapers, here is what I would do - not fly.
Has this idea not occurred to anyone else?
Has this idea not occurred to anyone else?
Aug 25, 2006 | 9:12 pm
#32
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mid-Atlantic
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Originally Posted by Unimatrix One
If I had a child still in diapers, here is what I would do - not fly.
Has this idea not occurred to anyone else?
Has this idea not occurred to anyone else?
Aug 26, 2006 | 9:35 am
#33
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What a flight last night, all of these children were in FIRST:
2 unaccompanied minors
2 less than 2 year olds in seats
1 lap child
3 accompanied minors (one of which was mine)
Unaccompanied were unruly for about 30 minutes
lap child & dad had a horrible time for about 1.5 hours and then prior to landing.
One of the two 2yo was a whining, wiggling nuisance to the paxs in 3e all night.
And guess what NO one changed a diaper in the cabin ^
2 unaccompanied minors
2 less than 2 year olds in seats
1 lap child
3 accompanied minors (one of which was mine)
Unaccompanied were unruly for about 30 minutes
lap child & dad had a horrible time for about 1.5 hours and then prior to landing.
One of the two 2yo was a whining, wiggling nuisance to the paxs in 3e all night.
And guess what NO one changed a diaper in the cabin ^
Last edited by drbond; Aug 28, 2006 at 8:43 am
Aug 26, 2006 | 3:00 pm
#34
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Unimatrix One
If I had a child still in diapers, here is what I would do - not fly.
Has this idea not occurred to anyone else?
Has this idea not occurred to anyone else?
) is not an option for us. 
Aug 26, 2006 | 4:11 pm
#35
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Originally Posted by Unimatrix One
If I had a child still in diapers, here is what I would do - not fly.
Has this idea not occurred to anyone else?
Has this idea not occurred to anyone else?
Aug 26, 2006 | 8:50 pm
#36
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Boston environs
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other suggestions
Originally Posted by Opabinia
We are moving overseas. Taking a ship (or swimming ) is not an option for us.
) is not an option for us. think that ideally you would have been able to have a 2nd adult with you for help with the 2
little kids. But that would be purely for your comfort/sanity, and sometimes
life interferes so that's not possible.
--LG
Last edited by lg10; Aug 26, 2006 at 8:57 pm Reason: omitted redundant sentence
Aug 26, 2006 | 9:21 pm
#37
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Originally Posted by drbond
What a flight last night, all of these children were in FIRST:
2 unaccompanied minors
2 less than 2 year olds in seats
1 lap child
3 accompanied minors (one of which was mine)
Unaccompanied were unruly for about 30 minutes
lap child & dad had a horrible time for about 1.5 hours and then prior to landing.
One of the two 2yo was a whining, wiggling nuisance to the paxs in 3e all night.
2 unaccompanied minors
2 less than 2 year olds in seats
1 lap child
3 accompanied minors (one of which was mine)
Unaccompanied were unruly for about 30 minutes
lap child & dad had a horrible time for about 1.5 hours and then prior to landing.
One of the two 2yo was a whining, wiggling nuisance to the paxs in 3e all night.
Back to the subject of the thread. I do not think it is appropriate to change a diaper in the cabin, I'd ask a flight attendent or a neighbor to mind the toddler for a couple minutes.
Last edited by PATRLR; Aug 26, 2006 at 9:34 pm
Aug 28, 2006 | 11:15 am
#38
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Originally Posted by lg10
Hi, while I'm not that much of an old-hand on FT, I've been travelling with
little kids for a long time.
It is my strong opinion that if you have a toddler and an infant, it is in
everyone's best interest to change your baby on your lap on a mat. There
won't be any unsanitary effects (there's a pad plus you, for goodness' sake);
your toddler will not be alone with a stranger (!) which I think is the worst
solution; you won't have to drag two little kids to a tiny bathroom stall.
little kids for a long time.
It is my strong opinion that if you have a toddler and an infant, it is in
everyone's best interest to change your baby on your lap on a mat. There
won't be any unsanitary effects (there's a pad plus you, for goodness' sake);
your toddler will not be alone with a stranger (!) which I think is the worst
solution; you won't have to drag two little kids to a tiny bathroom stall.
During flight I took the baby to the lav and used hte changing table. The United A319/320 have tables. If I was on an AC that doesn't have a table I'd use the seat again and again.
Aug 28, 2006 | 11:48 am
#39
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Originally Posted by uastarflyer
If I was on an AC that doesn't have a table I'd use the seat again and again.
If someone did that next to me while on an airplane, they'd be in a World of sh!t, and not just from the diapers!
Any of you who think that that sort of thing is perfectly fine have to get out of your self-entitlement mindset and take a microbiology course. Maybe when some arrogant, inconsiderate parents start getting sued (for getting some immune-deficient people sick) there might be some well overdue changes (no pun intended...) in this arena.
NEVER, EVER CHANGE A DIAPER IN THE SEATING AREA OF THE CABIN!
NEVER!
There is no emoticon or degree of capitalization or number of exclaimation points that can acurately convey how putrid and wrong this practice is. Just quit it.
Last edited by the_nomad; Aug 28, 2006 at 12:02 pm
Aug 28, 2006 | 3:24 pm
#40
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matter of opinion
Originally Posted by the_nomad
NEVER, EVER CHANGE A DIAPER IN THE SEATING AREA OF THE CABIN!
NEVER!
There is no emoticon or degree of capitalization or number of exclaimation points that can acurately convey how putrid and wrong this practice is. Just quit it.
a terrible practice, there could be a rule against it. Saying your opinion in
extreme terms does not make it more true. Again, the "germ" argument is
just not tenable when compared to the real germ risks on an airplane (air,
unwashed adult hands, seatbelts handled by countless folks w/o washing,
etc.)
Most parents know that diaper changes simply do not generate huge germ
risks. As I said before, give me baby-tush germs over adult-hand germs
anyday.
--LG
Aug 28, 2006 | 3:43 pm
#41
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 5,026
Originally Posted by lg10
Obviously, this is an issue on which people disagree. If it were really such a terrible practice, there could be a rule against it. Saying your opinion in extreme terms does not make it more true. Again, the "germ" argument is just not tenable when compared to the real germ risks on an airplane (air, unwashed adult hands, seatbelts handled by countless folks w/o washing, etc.)
Most parents know that diaper changes simply do not generate huge germ
risks. As I said before, give me baby-tush germs over adult-hand germs
anyday.
--LG
Most parents know that diaper changes simply do not generate huge germ
risks. As I said before, give me baby-tush germs over adult-hand germs
anyday.
--LG
Go to www.cdc.gov and look up hepatitis A, Hand, Foot and Mouth disease, shigella and giardia to start with - all can be spread by touching a surface contaminated with stool - i.e. where a diaper was changed - and all can be carried by infants. Which means not only are the passengers around the diaper change area at risk, those who sit there later can be affected, and FA's who handle things that have been on those contaminated surfaces can be affected. As there is no way to backtrack to tell exactly where someone contacted an infection when they later become sick, it is impossible to calculate the risk of changing a diaper at the seat, but it is a risk I'd rather not take.
Aug 28, 2006 | 4:57 pm
#42
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Originally Posted by lg10
Anyway, I was giving this issue a bit more thought, and I think it is a lot like any of the "why do xyz passengers do abc that really annoys me??" posts.
There are threads between people who hate recliners and people who always recline; there are threads between people who bring their own food on-board and people who hate the smell of other people's food; there are people who think rolling suitcases are an imposition on the carry-on space or boarding time and people who feel that they need those suitcases for a variety of reasons. I'm sure there are other examples too.
And for every such topic, there are vehement opinions on both sides expressing everything from Constitutional rights to poor health/hygiene to physical limitation concerns.
My point is that this "children should be seen and not heard and by gum, don't even think of changing a diaper in my presence" attitude is just one side of a "who will compromise on this one?" issue.
Like all such issues, it will likely be decided (it already is) to the more Libertarian side...i.e. people will do what they like (recline, bring strong-smelling food, bring desired luggage, change children as they please), with a dose of airline-economic-reality or regulations.
I do appreciate the etiquette-nature of this (and other) questions, so it's not like I think it's great to bug everyone around you etc. etc.
Arguably, to take up one of very few airplane bathrooms with a time-consuming process that could be done elsewhere -- could be considered ruder than minding one's own business and changing one's baby at the seat. In fact, I would consider this to be true, and I would think that it was an unnecessary wait for me if I wanted to use the bathroom at that time.
The best way to manage children on a plane, I think (and I thought well before having children) -- is to have them be relatively unobtrusive to everyone else. In diaper situations, this means changing them quietly in your own space.
Oh, and no one has discussed the safety concerns, but balancing upright in the lavatory while your wriggly kid is on a raised platform seems pretty risky to me. What about unexpected turbulence? If you change your baby at your seat, you don't have to un-belt.
I'm still not buying the "germ" objection because as a parent, I can assure anyone that the seats/tables/floors are disgusting enough that no-one would put their baby's plain tush on them! And, regarding boys and their possible urine, any parent of boys (and I am one) quickly learns to hold the diaper to catch any such wayward streams.
Of course, vehement posters will always try to shut down debate by saying that their side is the only one, or the only acceptable one. (It was a new low that drbond asked the moderator to close the thread because it bored him personally.)
I did go back and read the originally-suggested thread about diapers. I found it to be pretty offensive, and by the way, it was actually a thread about "why people don't want kids to travel on airplanes" which is a pretty snarky topic to begin with (though the OP seemed to be asking innocently enough).
I guess there are about a dozen hard-core FT'ers who make themselves heard about not wanting children or evidence of children to exist in their presence. I really hope that there are lurkers or seldom-posters who don't feel intimidated by this kind of attitude, either on flyertalk or on airplanes.
While it is true that I'm relatively new to flyertalk per se, I'm no newbie to the internet or to moderated discussion groups. I'm pretty surprised that it seems to be accepted netiquette here to be so unfriendly/ad-hominem instead of addressing content.
--LG
There are threads between people who hate recliners and people who always recline; there are threads between people who bring their own food on-board and people who hate the smell of other people's food; there are people who think rolling suitcases are an imposition on the carry-on space or boarding time and people who feel that they need those suitcases for a variety of reasons. I'm sure there are other examples too.
And for every such topic, there are vehement opinions on both sides expressing everything from Constitutional rights to poor health/hygiene to physical limitation concerns.
My point is that this "children should be seen and not heard and by gum, don't even think of changing a diaper in my presence" attitude is just one side of a "who will compromise on this one?" issue.
Like all such issues, it will likely be decided (it already is) to the more Libertarian side...i.e. people will do what they like (recline, bring strong-smelling food, bring desired luggage, change children as they please), with a dose of airline-economic-reality or regulations.
I do appreciate the etiquette-nature of this (and other) questions, so it's not like I think it's great to bug everyone around you etc. etc.
Arguably, to take up one of very few airplane bathrooms with a time-consuming process that could be done elsewhere -- could be considered ruder than minding one's own business and changing one's baby at the seat. In fact, I would consider this to be true, and I would think that it was an unnecessary wait for me if I wanted to use the bathroom at that time.
The best way to manage children on a plane, I think (and I thought well before having children) -- is to have them be relatively unobtrusive to everyone else. In diaper situations, this means changing them quietly in your own space.
Oh, and no one has discussed the safety concerns, but balancing upright in the lavatory while your wriggly kid is on a raised platform seems pretty risky to me. What about unexpected turbulence? If you change your baby at your seat, you don't have to un-belt.
I'm still not buying the "germ" objection because as a parent, I can assure anyone that the seats/tables/floors are disgusting enough that no-one would put their baby's plain tush on them! And, regarding boys and their possible urine, any parent of boys (and I am one) quickly learns to hold the diaper to catch any such wayward streams.
Of course, vehement posters will always try to shut down debate by saying that their side is the only one, or the only acceptable one. (It was a new low that drbond asked the moderator to close the thread because it bored him personally.)
I did go back and read the originally-suggested thread about diapers. I found it to be pretty offensive, and by the way, it was actually a thread about "why people don't want kids to travel on airplanes" which is a pretty snarky topic to begin with (though the OP seemed to be asking innocently enough).
I guess there are about a dozen hard-core FT'ers who make themselves heard about not wanting children or evidence of children to exist in their presence. I really hope that there are lurkers or seldom-posters who don't feel intimidated by this kind of attitude, either on flyertalk or on airplanes.
While it is true that I'm relatively new to flyertalk per se, I'm no newbie to the internet or to moderated discussion groups. I'm pretty surprised that it seems to be accepted netiquette here to be so unfriendly/ad-hominem instead of addressing content.
--LG
And as for CDTraveller - Seedy, you really need to get out more. Try reading "Air Babylon " - in particular what happens to corpses in the event of in-flight deaths - and then you might worry less about infants being infected with hep A, B or C, bubonic plague, hemorrhagic fever, ebola or any other goodies from the CDC library.
Last edited by Canarsie; Aug 28, 2006 at 10:49 pm Reason: Deleted quote from now-deleted milepost, as well as potentially inflammatory responses to it.
Aug 28, 2006 | 11:00 pm
#43
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Please Stay on Topic!
This thread needed changing, and it is my turn to attempt to clean up the soiled mess in this thread especially after receiving a rash of Report Bad Posts concerning this thread.
Urine luck because I have decided to keep this thread unpinned. However, if FlyerTalk members keep taking a dump in this thread by continuing the off-topic comments and trolling accusations, one will not need streaming text to realize that I will not hesitate to throw the baby out with the bathwater by either locking or deleting this thread.
Anyone who cannot handle this topic should take a powder now and not participate especially if they Luvs to be Pampered by giving and receiving Huggies to one another. The rest of you should please try to absorb any temptation to go off-topic or to violate the Guidelines and Rules of FlyerTalk otherwise, you will be Desitined to receive a warning or even a possible suspension of your FlyerTalk posting privileges.
I, for one, will be relieved if everyone can discuss this controversial topic in a civil manner.
Thank you for understanding.
Regards,
Canarsie
Senior Moderator
Urine luck because I have decided to keep this thread unpinned. However, if FlyerTalk members keep taking a dump in this thread by continuing the off-topic comments and trolling accusations, one will not need streaming text to realize that I will not hesitate to throw the baby out with the bathwater by either locking or deleting this thread.
Anyone who cannot handle this topic should take a powder now and not participate especially if they Luvs to be Pampered by giving and receiving Huggies to one another. The rest of you should please try to absorb any temptation to go off-topic or to violate the Guidelines and Rules of FlyerTalk otherwise, you will be Desitined to receive a warning or even a possible suspension of your FlyerTalk posting privileges.
I, for one, will be relieved if everyone can discuss this controversial topic in a civil manner.
Thank you for understanding.
Regards,
Canarsie
Senior Moderator
Aug 28, 2006 | 11:47 pm
#44
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Originally Posted by the_nomad
If someone did that next to me while on an airplane, they'd be in a World of sh!t, and not just from the diapers!
Aug 29, 2006 | 2:11 am
#45
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Originally Posted by Canarsie
This thread needed changing, and it is my turn to attempt to clean up the soiled mess in this thread especially after receiving a rash of Report Bad Posts concerning this thread.
Urine luck because I have decided to keep this thread unpinned. However, if FlyerTalk members keep taking a dump in this thread by continuing the off-topic comments and trolling accusations, one will not need streaming text to realize that I will not hesitate to throw the baby out with the bathwater by either locking or deleting this thread.
Anyone who cannot handle this topic should take a powder now and not participate especially if they Luvs to be Pampered by giving and receiving Huggies to one another. The rest of you should please try to absorb any temptation to go off-topic or to violate the Guidelines and Rules of FlyerTalk otherwise, you will be Desitined to receive a warning or even a possible suspension of your FlyerTalk posting privileges.
Urine luck because I have decided to keep this thread unpinned. However, if FlyerTalk members keep taking a dump in this thread by continuing the off-topic comments and trolling accusations, one will not need streaming text to realize that I will not hesitate to throw the baby out with the bathwater by either locking or deleting this thread.
Anyone who cannot handle this topic should take a powder now and not participate especially if they Luvs to be Pampered by giving and receiving Huggies to one another. The rest of you should please try to absorb any temptation to go off-topic or to violate the Guidelines and Rules of FlyerTalk otherwise, you will be Desitined to receive a warning or even a possible suspension of your FlyerTalk posting privileges.