allthai

My Thai wife and I have a good friend who is the head of the immigration department here in Chiang Mai. He has been talking about the problem with transients for years and the headaches they cause. This is not a knee jurk reaction but something they have been trying to deal with for a long time now.

I told him the other day about all the talk on forums etc about this VOA subject and he put it like this, which I agree.

If visitors want to come to Thailand for a short visit the VOA is a convience for them and not a real visa. If they want to stay for 60 days or longer they should get a tourist visa. If for 90 days or longer a non immigrant visa.

For NGO's; if the orginization is regestered with the Thai government they can get a non immigrant visa then apply for a 1 year extension. Same applies for missionaries and retired people over age 50.

I have been living here since 1989 and followed all the rules and have no problems. My wife and I are not registered as married with the Thai Government so I can't get a spouse visa. I have been getting 90 day non immigrant visas for years without any problems and extensions. For the last 3 years I have been living here on a retirement visa.

I just don't understand why people who want to stay here for long periods of time do not get a real Visa. It sure would be a lot easier for them if they did. Maybe they are trying to hide something?

Just my opinion.
Randy and Ning

transpac

What was the purpose of your "visits" when applying for a Non-Immigrant Visa?

Who authored your Invitation Letter?

Did you have a Work Permit?

Can you get a Work Permit on an "O" (Retirement) visa?

Why not register your marriage here? (A sceptic might say that looks like someone who is "trying to hide something".)

I believe people have been staying here for long periods of time, without a proper visa, because it is easy to do and the government has allowed it to happen, and almost seems to be encouraging it, up until now. The money they pump (Visa runners) in to the economy, and associated visa fees and 'tea money', are probably the main reasons?

Your friend, the head of Immigration in Chiang Mai, is fully empowered to deport, or refuse re-entry to, transients causing headaches. I suspect he has chosen not to for various reasons?

allthai

I came here in 1989 by request of Payap University in Chiang Mai and the Thai Government to set up a Audio and Video Studio and Communications Department at the University.

When I arrived I never saw the inside of the airport. I was greeted on the Thai Airways plane. Handed over my passport walked from the aircraft to a waiting vehicle with a Thai hostess, driven around to the terminal, was given my luggage and my passport. Then driven to a welcoming party, spent the night in Bangkok then the same treatment in Chiang Mai.

The communications department was opened in 1992. During that period I did not except any money from the government or the University. I was sponsored by my church in Texas.

Our marriage is registered in the USA but not in Thailand. My wife wants to keep her name and rights as a Thai national. If a Thai women marries a foreigner and registers the marrage with the Ampor she loses most of her rights such as purchasing land etc.

Randy and Ning

Trajan

I think you were right the first time....I spoke to my lawyer today who read the original Thai version of the regulation which becomes effective on October 1st 2006 (and he spoke with the immigration department today)....

it appears that if you are entering Thailand on a 30 day maximum visa-exempt status (because you hold a passport from one of the 41 nations like the USA, Canada, Brazil, Peru, Japan, HK, Korea, Australia, NZ, EU15/EFTA3, ASEAN6, SouthAfrica and 7Middle Eastern nations), you are allowed to enter Thailand any number of times as long as:

(a) each stay does not exceed 30 days (90 days for Brazilians, Peruvians and Koreans under special treaty); and
(b) you do not stay more than an aggregate of 90 days during the relevant six month period.....the relevant six month period starts on the day you first arrive in Thailand.....

this has been announced because up to now, some people have been abusing the 30 day maximum visa-exempt entries into Thailand which were intended only for temporary tourist visits to the Kingdom (and basically living in Thailand indefinitely) by just doing "border runs" every 30 days and immediately returning for another 30 days ad infinitum...

[as an alternative to entering Thailand on a visa-exempt status (which is subject to the above time limits), if you wish to stay in Thailand for longer periods of time, then you will need to obtain a proper visa at a Thai Embassy or Consulate outside of Thailand before you come to Thailand...]

however, it is currently unclear how this will be implemented in practice because all entry points into Thailand (border checkpoints, harbor checkpoints and international airport checkpoints) do not seem to have instant centralized computerized information available to notify immigration officials how many days you have already stayed in Thailand...however this may be fixed very soon....

we will see how this is implemented after Oct 1st..... (all of the Immigration Officials at HQ had an internal seminar today at Imperial Queens Park Hotel on Sukhumvit, so more info may come out soon ).....

glob99

You would still need a work permit! Whether you are paid for the work or not you are REQUIRED to have a work permit.

Thais married to a foreigner CAN buy land. The spouse has to sign a paper relinquishing all rights to the land. This has been the law for several YEARS.

So quit hiding!

BKKROP

THE NEW REGULATIONS ARE WELL OVERDUE, whilst it has totally baffled me for years why predominately males who I know are law abiding and generous in their own country, will go to such extremes to stay in a country other than their own illegally on a tourist visa. In my country, they would have to work out of the tax system, without medical cover, and sooner rather than later they are deported, usually with a lot of "I've lived here for 5 years and been a good citizen". Rubbish, they are crims, and they believe they are above the law of the country they choose to live in. Three very good friends, I have told this to, and they laugh it off, saying that it's the way things are done here. No it's not, many of us, thousands of us do it the correct way, and I can tell you it's not hard, but you do have to pay a fee, and that could be the clincher?. may have to forgo a dinner at Sirroco's!

Trajan

dinner at Sirroco's costs alot more than the proper visa fee

billp

Yeah, I've been doing some more reading at Thaivisa.com and I think I was right the 1st time too Can't they just look at the in and out stamps in your passport to see how many days you've been in the Kingdom in total? It's readily apparent if you've been travelling in and out several times and not staying the full 30 days.

I'm concerned because I plan to base in BKK in Jan. and Feb. and make a series of short trips to other countries in the region.

The old laissez faire serial entry stamps would have worked perfectly (never back in the LOS for more than 10 days or so), but none of the visas really fit our plans except for the expensive 12-month non-immigrant multiple entry. That would have been overkill.

UncleDude

Of course a sensible country would make it based on an annual format.

This would make it easier to enforce and also if it was 180 days per annum it would allow affluent Westerns from cold countires to spend 4 or 5 Northern Winter Months in Thailand. This option would not be available under the proposed 90 days in 180 regulations.

T I T

billp

It's really no problem if you want to stay 180 days. You simply get yourself a six-month tourist visa.
From Thai Visa Forum

The visa-free entry stamps (which once again are not a Visa on Arrival or VOA) are meant to make it easy to go to the LOS for a 30-day vacation. The new rule is just to prevent people from misusing this visa-free system as a means to stay permanently. The Schengen countries have similar regulations.

transpac

I believe there are ~ 11,000,000 illegal immigrants in my home country, and the majority are not "crims"? In fact, there may be more illegal Thais in the U.S.A. than there are illegal Americans in Thailand?

Here's a snip from a current thread on ThaiVisa, which indicates that you will be allowed a maximum of three (3) Visas on Arrival (VOA) or Tourist Visa Exemptions (TVA) in any rolling 180 period. It should be interesting to see how airlines deal with this new regulation as they may be responsible for transporting those denied entry at Immigration in Thailand.

I think it is safe to say that everyone should attempt to get a real (30/60 day, single/double-entry) tourist visa in their home country prior to departing for Thailand?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=82975

Now the news for frequent visitors: We have checked this upwards and backwards all day and it has been confirmed by a copy of the new regulation we have. If you have a visa on arrival or a Tourist Visa Exemption more than three times in six months, you cannot come into Thailand without a visa from an Embassy/Consulate. When you enter Thailand, even if you are here just 1 hour, this counts as 30 days. If you come back 6 weeks later for 2 days, this again is 30 days. If you arrive a month later for 4 days, still counts as 30 days. When you leave, you cannot enter Thailand for 3.5 months without coming back with a visa. The reason given is to force people who are supposed to have work permits to do so and pay tax.

Another example; you arrive for a week, this counts as 30 days, One month later 3 days and its 30 days, two months later and its for a two week period, still another 30 days. You can reenter Thailand in 6 weeks without having a visa.

The clock starts at zero on Oct 1st 2006, meaning everyone has a quota of three entries in the next six months. No matter how many previous entries you may have.



edited to add: I think you can forget about those 6-month tourist visas. I doubt any embassy/consul will grant those anymore. And Non-Immirgant B visas are suposed to be subject to having a Work Permit. At least they grand-fathered those who chose the 3 million baht condo investment visa scheme, in perpetuity, but that option is no longer available for new applicants.


edited to further add: There has been essentially no government here in Thailand for ~ six (6) months). The Caretaker Prime Minister dissolved Parliament on Feb. 24, 2006. An election was held on April 2, 2006 but that was ruled illegal and voided. Another election was called for October 22, 2006 that will slip to November 22, or November, 29. (Perhaps the airport rail-link will open before there is an election? )

Without a functioning government many forces (military, civil-service, police and regional government) are at work, not doing their jobs, but hastily exercising and grabbing power. Without any sort of checks/balances (not that there were a lot to begin with), you see decisions made and new policies implemented without any sort of thought or analysis. The tendency here seems to be to float ideas as policy, with little forethought, and then wait to see what the response is. If it�s negative, then they back-track.

Trajan

I believe the Schengen visa countries of Europe (basically the EU 15 nations plus Norway and Iceland minus the UK and Ireland) also have the maximum 90 days out of six months visa rule. Are the countries in Western Europe not "sensible"?

alex0683de

That's ridiculous! Am I the only one who thinks that sort of regulation is going to cost them quite a bit of $$? What about business travellers to BKK who need to visit more than three times in six months? They're likely to be in the country for less than a week in those six months, but they'll be prohibited from visiting Thailand just the same. That's lost revenue to hotels, restaurants, etc.

I also see this hurting various Thai airlines - people are going to think twice about side-trips to other countries now, especially if they can't make a connection airside. In that sense, it could be a good thing for the LCC hubs at KUL and SIN, but it hurts BKK's status as an aviation hub in the region.

Oh, and what about the upcoming mess with Don Muang and Suvarnabhumi? That's going to entail quite a few people who are forced to enter Thailand to make inter-airport connections.

Somehow, I'm beginnig to think they haven't really thought this through...

Trajan

please calm down I do not believe final interpretation of the rule is settled yet...

I spoke to my lawyer who read the original Thai version of the regulation which becomes effective on October 1st 2006 (and he spoke with the immigration department)...

just to test interpretations I spoke to a few other lawyers separately who read the regulation (not the English translation)... same conclusions...so there is hope ^

it appears that if you are entering Thailand on a 30 day visa-exempt status (because you hold a passport from one of the 41 nations/areas = USA, Canada, Brazil, Peru, Japan, HK, Korea, Australia, NZ, EU15, EFTA3, ASEAN6, SouthAfrica and 7Middle Eastern nations), you are allowed to enter Thailand any number of times as long as:

(a) each stay does not exceed 30 days (90 days for Brazilians, Peruvians and Koreans under special treaty); and
(b) you do not stay more than an aggregate of 90 days during the relevant six month period.....[the relevant six month period starts on the day you first arrive in Thailand].....

if the foregoing is indeed the rule, then legitimate travellers (not "permanent tourists with no visa") would be fine

we will know for sure when the rules are actually implemented Oct 1

transpac

These folks should have a "One-year, multiple-entry, Non-immigrant B visa". They should not be entering Thailand on a Tourist Visa Exemption if they are coming for business, even though the landing card offers "business" as an option for the "purpose of your visit".

Trajan and his team of lawyers are viewing and interpreting the new rules optimistically, assuming Thai Immigration officials actually have thought through the impacts of their decisions. While I am an not personally affected, I do hope that this optimistic view comes to pass. However, I consider the people at SunbeltAsia to be very reliable, and their position today is that each stay, no matter how brief, will count as 30 days, and you get three stays, for a maximum of 30 days each, in any 180 day period, and your fourth arrival can occur no sonner than 90 days after your first arrival.

It will be nigh on impossible to enforce the regulations as interpreted by trajan's lawyers. Can you just see them calculating the current, rolling time-frame, number of days in country! And of course the airlines will need to get involved as they are responsible for transporting passengers denied entry into Thailand. No, I think Thai Immigration will opt for the three visits, and then you have to wait 90 days, measured from the date of your first entry. to make your fourth visit.

Any lawyer should be telling you to get a visa that is appropriate for your visit(s).