BearX220

The SEA light rail trip from airport to downtown takes twice as long as driving, plus waiting time. It's safe and comfortable but slow. I hope the DFW solution is better, and attracts riders.

EmailKid

Sounds similar for driving time.

Seats are similar, but safety is another issue

Several murders over the years, though I think it may be a little better on the Orange Line, but there are all kinds of characters downtown

We'll see, I have a MR Saturday, so I'll see how it works.

BearX220

It would be great if you could drop back here and post a mini-report. The time it takes to rent a car at DFW drives me crazy -- I have to factor that into the time-and-convenience comparison.

EmailKid

Saturday, 4:11 a.m. departure from Inwood / Love Field Station (and yet it's the Burbank station that has little planes on the columns).

Two homeless and a handful of other pax, mostly employees by the looks of it, no problems.

I'd say about five minute walk to first entrance of Term A, where a redcoat employee was standing to assist pax (couple of other people walked by to take the stairs to upper level, but an elevator is there as well). Walkway to terminal has partial cover to protect from sun / rain, though not if there is strong wind like we sometimes get here with rain falling sideways.

All in all a good experience, and I expect to repeat it Saturday for a flight to SAN. I could probably take the 5:11 a.m., but if there were more people (OK, if there were people there period, there were three or four of us there at 5 a.m.) I would be very nervous catching a 6:40 a.m. flight from Term E.

Oh, and an added bonus, there is a multi airline checkin kiosk with passport reader beside the elevator, though neither myself or assistant could get past the third screen That was a test, as I already had printed a BP at home.

And I think most of us here know how to use SkyLink / walk to gate

BearX220

Thanks for the follow-up! Appreciate the detail.

Yup, we have a similar arrangement here at SEA for the march to the light rail platform... a semi-shielded walkway through the parking garage that is unpleasant in wind or heavy rain and a little sketchy in off-peak hours.

swag

You didn't mention the return journey home from DFW. How is the station there to wait at? Since it's the origination, can you board and wait for the departure, or do the trains show up just before departure time? I'm wondering about waiting for the train in the August heat; if it's anything like waiting on the lower level for the parking or rental car shuttles, ugh.

system error

For what it's worth, my GF and I took the Orange line from St. Paul Station downtown, which is a 5 min walk from the apartment, to DFW for dinner at the Hyatt in terminal D (yes just for fun, and points!).

I used the nice GoPass app to buy tickets as we walked to the station and it works just fine. We left around 6:30pm to avoid any commuter rush. Train was clean and maybe half full when we got on. It empties out pretty quick after maybe five stops. Took 60 mins to get to DFW and then about 5 mins more to get to Terminal A. The issue of course was having to suffer on the Terminal Link bus to Terminal D (no ticket = no skylink). Good lord those roads are so bad! You don't realize how bad until you go over them in the tanks they pass over as a bus. Anyway, dinner was great and we got back on the train around 10:30pm. There was some confusion as the Orange Line said it stops at Fair Park, which is a Green Line route, but no worries as it took us straight to St Paul. No issues. Only one guy hit us up for some cash and that was downtown at the last two stations. Living downtown it's something that you get use to so no worries.

Verdict. I'm all in. Granted, I'm super close but for $2.50 each way I'll gladly spend the 60 mins vs risking my life in a cab. It's cheaper than an Uber and now I don't have to waste time and money on parking ($20 a day my @$!). No traffic, no cops hunting speeding Fiats, no squeezing between massive trucks who can't park. Now it's headphones, coffee, and catching up on my favorite Flyer Talk threads!

EmailKid

It's one quarter the distace of SEA at most, and since it's in the middle of middle of nowhere, not at all sketchy, at least not so far

I think they use it as driver rest, so when I came, there was a train waiting. Another one arrived just before we left, but the marquee didn't reflect how long before the train was to leave, though it left according to schedule. Unlike buses, the trains generally run on time.

Well, you could have bought a refundable ticket to get a BP

Back when UA would not let me print an int'l BP I took the Terminal Bus a few times, and it's painful both on account of the ride and the time it took

It probably was going to Fair Park @:-)

That late they start reducing frequencies, so instead of going north, it was probably going to the yards, which are after Fair Park.

My employer subsidizes our annual passes to get more people off the road, so for me it's a no brainer. Just wish they constructed the line a little better so it would not have to slow to a crawl in some places - the whole trip should be at least five, if not ten minutes faster.

BearX220

Excellent to hear, thanks.

The SEA-to-city light rail doesn't really defend its time sink. It's a 10-to-15 minute walk from the farthest reaches of the A gates to the light rail platform, then it's up to 15 minutes until the next departure, then it's 35 minutes to Westlake. Meanwhile, if I-5 isn't screwed up you can drive the same route in about 15 minutes.

system error

Clearly I'm slipping on my game.

swag

A real Flyertalker would have found a flight departing from A to AUS, and a return from AUS into D. No Skylink needed, and extra EQMs.

Or if not AUS, then SIN.

system error

I hold my head in shame. I just wanted dinner and Hyatt points.

But you can bet I'll be watching for cheap nights at both DFW Hyatt's. Especially with that new targeted offer that's on the table.

Herb687

Agree. DART's newer lines are an example of some of the worst thought-out transit planning and construction I have ever seen. Right of way and track should be built in such a way that every geometry change doesn't require slowing to crazy slow speeds like 15 mph.

The number of curves and inclines on DART rail lines where trains slow to a crawl is just ridiculous.

Have these people never ridden BART? I think the only truly slow point on the entire system are the curves in the tunnels under Downtown Oakland (a complex junction involving a wye). Other than that, BART trains are able to climb out of and descend into the Transbay Tube and negotiate curves on viaducts at much higher speeds.

Even in the 1970s when BART was being built, SF Bay Area land was dear. DART, on the other hand, with the benefit of modern civil engineering, can't design curves for operation at decent speeds here in DFW where land is abundant and cheap.

Heck I even took an Amtrak Empire Corridor train out of Penn Station not too long ago. For those not familiar with railroad history, in order to consolidate its Empire Corridor (ALB) trains with the rest of the NYC service at Penn Station instead of Grand Central, Amtrak had to build a connecting tunnel ("Empire Connection") that swings left, descends underneath the main line leading into the Hudson River tunnels and then negotiates a greater than 90 degree turn to the right while climbing back up to ground level and out of the tunnel. This descending, SHARP turn, then climbing piece of tunnel track is negotiated by 86' non-articulated railcars.

And yet DART's modern, articulated equipment can't take the turns thrown at them by DART's idiot planners at more than 15 mph?

BearX220

It's not fair to compare heavy rail versus light rail rights of way. Light rail is cheaper to build for lots of reasons. It's inherently intermodal and can fit into a street grid, not on top of it or underneath.

I haven't visited the system but I expect DART's speed limitations are a function of finite funds, not diminished mental capacity of engineers.

fairviewroad

You're comparing a worst-case scenario for light rail to the best case scenario for driving. If you're at the farthest reaches of the A gates there's a good chance you also have a 10-15 minute walk to your car, so that's a wash. [You can probably get to the cab stand a little faster, but if you have to wait more than a couple of minutes for a cab, you've lost that edge.]

"Up to 15 minutes until the next departure" is true, except it leaves out the inconvenient fact that trains run every 10 minutes or less from 0600 - 2200 on weekdays (0800 - 2200 on weekends) so there's a very good chance that you'll be waiting 5 minutes or less for the next train.

Meanwhile, the word "IF" in your final sentence looms large. If you use WSDOT's travel time calculator you can see that a 15 minute drive from Seatac to downtown Seattle is a fantasy during most weekday business hours. At 0930, for instance, the "95% reliable travel time" is 38 minutes, which incidentally is 5 minutes longer than it takes on the light rail train from Seatac airport to Pioneer Square.

Obviously a car will beat the light rail in some situations, such as late at night. And the time-calculation really has a lot to do with where your ultimate destination is. (I.E. if you're heading to Redmond or Lynnwood, then public transit is the option of last resort).