Cabin crew strikes - December 2022 and into 2023 [now resolved]
Nov 21, 2022, 1:45 pm
#16
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: LIS
Programs: FB LTPE, TP Gold, All Gold
Posts: 1,180
Nov 21, 2022, 5:48 pm
#17
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Redwood City, CA USA (SFO/SJC)
Programs: 1K 2010, 1P in 2011, Plat for 2012,13,14,15 & 2016. Gold in 17 & 18, Plat since
Posts: 8,826
And if I fly the outbound and they cancel the return, I'd get a partial refund?
Nov 22, 2022, 1:21 am
#18
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,804
Yes a part refund would be offered, though they will also offer a rebooking. EC261 applies to this, so the two remedies being rebooking or refund (if it implies a delay over 5 hours). There may also be compensation since this is a strike by TAP's own staff. I can't imagine TAP will be swift to offer that, but it is the law. TAP can avoid paying compensation if they cancel the service 2 weeks in advance, so that's worth watching out for in the next few days. But they still have to offer refunds and rebooking.
Nov 23, 2022, 9:59 am
#19
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA GfL, Marriott PlatfL/Ambassador, TP Gold, IHG Spire
Posts: 1,656
I have now received an email from TAP that I quote below. Key headlines:
- 360 flights on 8th and 9th will be cancelled
- TP will offer rebook options for other dates "or other solutions that are accepted by the customer" - whatever that is
My notes:
- if you receive a notification cancellation 14 days before your flight, you are not entitled to compensation
- regardless of when you receive notification of cancellation, passengers are still entitled to assistance whilst waiting for a rebooked flight, including accommodation and meals
- the UK has issued specific guidance for rebooking situations like this and made it clear that the airline MUST rebook the passenger on other carriers if that minimises disruption to the client. The guidance goes as far as saying that it doesn't matter if the airline has an agreement or not with other carriers. As a matter of last resort you can buy a ticket on another airline if TP refuse to rebook you on another carrier and submit it for reimbursement. Be prepared that you'd have to take TP to court to recoup your costs. Guidance can be found here: https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33...0(CAP2155).pdf
- I don't know if this above applies to other jurisdictions, including the EU. My guess is that there is similar guidance in the EU but I haven't seen it
- you are entitled to request a refund to the original form of payment (not vouchers) but when you do so you forfeit your right to assistance and to rerouting to your destination
TAP has received the SNPVAC strike notice for December 8 and 9, confirming the most difficult scenario and the union's total inflexibility to negotiate a solution that does not harm Customers, the Company and the Portuguese People.
Thus, and to avoid that Customers with flights booked for December 8 and 9 are further affected by the uncertainty of whether or not their flight, due to the crew strike, will take place, TAP decided to cancel 360 flights scheduled for the two days of the strike.
The process of cancelling flights and informing passengers has already begun. TAP will make contact with all passengers affected by these cancellations, proposing alternative flights, on different dates, or other solutions that are accepted by the customer. If your flight is to be cancelled, you will receive a specific email with the alternatives. TAP recommends that you always check the status of your flight in www.flytap.com
This is the only solution that allows the best mitigation of the inconvenience caused to TAP customers as unfortunately the definition of minimum services can only be made up to three days before the start of the strike and the SNPVAC refuses to anticipate the General Meeting of its members which has the power to call off the strike and which is only scheduled for 6 December, just two days before the start of the strike.
TAP knows that the most difficult scenario that its customers can face is the uncertainty as to whether their flights will take place or be cancelled, and in order to avoid this undefinition, TAP is anticipating the cancellation of part of its flights and is already starting to work on solutions to be offered.
TAP apologizes for this situation and will do the best effort to minimize the impacts on our Customers journey.
- 360 flights on 8th and 9th will be cancelled
- TP will offer rebook options for other dates "or other solutions that are accepted by the customer" - whatever that is
My notes:
- if you receive a notification cancellation 14 days before your flight, you are not entitled to compensation
- regardless of when you receive notification of cancellation, passengers are still entitled to assistance whilst waiting for a rebooked flight, including accommodation and meals
- the UK has issued specific guidance for rebooking situations like this and made it clear that the airline MUST rebook the passenger on other carriers if that minimises disruption to the client. The guidance goes as far as saying that it doesn't matter if the airline has an agreement or not with other carriers. As a matter of last resort you can buy a ticket on another airline if TP refuse to rebook you on another carrier and submit it for reimbursement. Be prepared that you'd have to take TP to court to recoup your costs. Guidance can be found here: https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33...0(CAP2155).pdf
- I don't know if this above applies to other jurisdictions, including the EU. My guess is that there is similar guidance in the EU but I haven't seen it
- you are entitled to request a refund to the original form of payment (not vouchers) but when you do so you forfeit your right to assistance and to rerouting to your destination
TAP has received the SNPVAC strike notice for December 8 and 9, confirming the most difficult scenario and the union's total inflexibility to negotiate a solution that does not harm Customers, the Company and the Portuguese People.
Thus, and to avoid that Customers with flights booked for December 8 and 9 are further affected by the uncertainty of whether or not their flight, due to the crew strike, will take place, TAP decided to cancel 360 flights scheduled for the two days of the strike.
The process of cancelling flights and informing passengers has already begun. TAP will make contact with all passengers affected by these cancellations, proposing alternative flights, on different dates, or other solutions that are accepted by the customer. If your flight is to be cancelled, you will receive a specific email with the alternatives. TAP recommends that you always check the status of your flight in www.flytap.com
This is the only solution that allows the best mitigation of the inconvenience caused to TAP customers as unfortunately the definition of minimum services can only be made up to three days before the start of the strike and the SNPVAC refuses to anticipate the General Meeting of its members which has the power to call off the strike and which is only scheduled for 6 December, just two days before the start of the strike.
TAP knows that the most difficult scenario that its customers can face is the uncertainty as to whether their flights will take place or be cancelled, and in order to avoid this undefinition, TAP is anticipating the cancellation of part of its flights and is already starting to work on solutions to be offered.
TAP apologizes for this situation and will do the best effort to minimize the impacts on our Customers journey.
Last edited by mario; Nov 23, 2022 at 10:07 am
Nov 23, 2022, 1:42 pm
#20
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,804
Right To Care is part of EC261 and applies in Poirtugal as well as the UK. The key principles are the same throughout Europe. However, as ever, it's best to work with the airline as far as possible, and I suspect that TAP will feed cancellations to the Amadeus Disruption screen. This will allow rebooking online.
Nov 24, 2022, 7:59 am
#21
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 20
Refund to original payment method
I'm trying to refund a cancelled reservation as a result of the strike. Despite TAP saying the refund will be made to the original payment method (a credit card in my case), it's requesting bank details and an IBAN number. Could anyone shed any light on this before I try to engage with them?
Thanks so much
Edit following response from TAP
TAP replied to query via Twitter DM. Initially, they told me the flight hadn't been cancelled (and if I wanted a refund, I'd have to pay a €400 penalty). When I sent them a copy of the email saying the flight had been cancelled, they said the reservations system still showed it as confirmed, so I should wait "a few days" before requesting the refund.
Thanks so much
Edit following response from TAP
TAP replied to query via Twitter DM. Initially, they told me the flight hadn't been cancelled (and if I wanted a refund, I'd have to pay a €400 penalty). When I sent them a copy of the email saying the flight had been cancelled, they said the reservations system still showed it as confirmed, so I should wait "a few days" before requesting the refund.
Last edited by turnerma12; Nov 25, 2022 at 4:35 am Reason: Updated with TAP response
Nov 24, 2022, 11:53 am
#22
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: LIS
Programs: FB LTPE, TP Gold, All Gold
Posts: 1,180
Should have been more specific, apologies.
Flying TP FNC-LIS 09DEC morning, hence my question about MSLs. Then, on a separate booking I have an evening IB LIS-MAD. As long as I can make it to LIS on the 09DEC, I’ll find my way to MAD (worst case scenario there’s always a night bus). Issue is around leaving the island/arriving to the continent 😅
Anyway, thank you. I remain hopeful. EF shows all flights with no availability, so if the strike is eventually taking place, I suppose I can make it if there’s MSL for the FNC-LIS (either on my flight or rebooked onto one of the frequencies that will operate that day?)
AFAIK, only IB flies FNC-MAD couple of days a week in winter.
Flying TP FNC-LIS 09DEC morning, hence my question about MSLs. Then, on a separate booking I have an evening IB LIS-MAD. As long as I can make it to LIS on the 09DEC, I’ll find my way to MAD (worst case scenario there’s always a night bus). Issue is around leaving the island/arriving to the continent 😅
Anyway, thank you. I remain hopeful. EF shows all flights with no availability, so if the strike is eventually taking place, I suppose I can make it if there’s MSL for the FNC-LIS (either on my flight or rebooked onto one of the frequencies that will operate that day?)
AFAIK, only IB flies FNC-MAD couple of days a week in winter.
Nov 24, 2022, 12:00 pm
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Ventura
Programs: Gov't Travel Aficionado, UA Plat
Posts: 288
Is there any way to tell what the MSL routes are? AC still hasn’t cancelled my LIS-MAD flight on morning of 09 Dec. If it’s inevitable and AC is just dragging their feet on cancelling, I’d like to make my alternative plans as soon as possible.
Nov 25, 2022, 3:58 am
#24
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: FRA
Programs: *G
Posts: 169
Strike in Dec
Watch out the latest information when you fly with TAP on these days.
TAP Air Portugal cabin crew call strike on 8 and 9 December
TAP Air Portugal cabin crew call strike on 8 and 9 December
Nov 25, 2022, 1:30 pm
#25
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC
Posts: 368
Do you mean TAP sold you the ticket or it came via (e.g.) Air Canada? If it's a TAP ticket then the Canada number is 1-800-903-7914 , as per their website. There is a ticket desk in YYZ but usually they just handle on-the-day issues and may not be able to help in this scenario. At this stage TAP will move your flight, later on if it's cancelled then UA and jetBlue options will also be possible.
My concern is: Aren't all flights on 8–9 December cancelled? Maybe they just haven't "officially" cancelled the BOS flight yet, and I'm going to get another email in a few days saying this one is cancelled too! Any additional information about the extent of the strike action would be appreciated. Should I let them book me via BOS?
Nov 25, 2022, 4:09 pm
#26
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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That's crystal ball stuff really. No-one knows, certainly not TAP. It may be the strike gets called off, it may be that non union staff are able to operate BOS, it may be that it gets cancelled at the last moment. However the reason for cancellations happening at this point is that where 2 weeks notice is given the airline isn't obliged to offer EC261 compensation, so there is a financial case for getting the right number of cancellations aligned at this point.
Nov 25, 2022, 4:40 pm
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Ventura
Programs: Gov't Travel Aficionado, UA Plat
Posts: 288
My flight specifically (LIS-MAD on morning of 08 Dec appears to be back on sale again. It’s operated by Portugalia/TAP Express and I see Bulgaria Air being sold for the same route/date as well. Perhaps this is one of the 50% of flights that weren’t cancelled or perhaps only TAP (non-express) flights were cut to 50%.
Nov 25, 2022, 8:16 pm
#28
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC
Posts: 368
That's crystal ball stuff really. No-one knows, certainly not TAP. It may be the strike gets called off, it may be that non union staff are able to operate BOS, it may be that it gets cancelled at the last moment. However the reason for cancellations happening at this point is that where 2 weeks notice is given the airline isn't obliged to offer EC261 compensation, so there is a financial case for getting the right number of cancellations aligned at this point.
). But my booking now shows the LIS-BOS-YYZ. This works out in that I get home on the same day, I stay in J — so long as the flight goes! I'll keep an eye on alternatives in the meantime. I hadn't realized that only some flights were being cancelled, I thought the expectation was that all would be grounded.
Nov 25, 2022, 8:48 pm
#29
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: KZ/EU
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 37
I have been checking the booking every day after they sent the email out and seems like the flight is still on. Hopefully it'll remain in the schedule!
Edit: just checked EF and looks like my flight is one of the only four that will operate that day, in principle.
Nov 26, 2022, 7:53 am
#30
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3
Obrigado pelo heads up, tff.
I have been checking the booking every day after they sent the email out and seems like the flight is still on. Hopefully it'll remain in the schedule!
Edit: just checked EF and looks like my flight is one of the only four that will operate that day, in principle.
I have been checking the booking every day after they sent the email out and seems like the flight is still on. Hopefully it'll remain in the schedule!
Edit: just checked EF and looks like my flight is one of the only four that will operate that day, in principle.
EDIT: Figured out EF is Expert Flyer and joined but Flight Status is only 4 days out. Tap has the 8th and 9th greyed out for new booking on their site. How can you see the cancel so far ahead?
Last edited by loriginCA; Nov 26, 2022 at 8:27 am Reason: Updated info