TAP-A343

The prices for LIS-KBP are not exactly low. I wonder how much revenue TP gets from these codeshares.

tff

I don't know exactly how code-share agreements work in terms of revenue allocation, but I'd guess that can make their own price and cash the tickets they sell under their own code.

Indeed. PS is even one of the 2 (soon to be 3 with AY) partners of the Victoria programme, as it can be seen here.

^^^^

IAN-UK

TAP fares are certainly not low, but agency fares might surprise you.

TAP-A343

And which would those be?

GBM.flights

I thought you'd never ask

[armchair TP CEO/Route planner]
Quest for higher yield/premium pax and feeding Longhaul operation.

TLV
I would have opened TLV instead of OTP (just to stick to the night time utilization).
EL AL cancelled their direct flight to GRU. Capture traffic to Brazil and EWR, MIA.
I know a narrowbody vs a widebody to TLV is a clear disavantadge.
STR (at the risk of upsetting mama LH)
Corporate premium traffic to Brazil and Africa
SXB
If STR does not work
+ politicians

Strategy "Go for UK regions that have to go through BA LHRondon airways"
BHX
Second biggest metropolitan area in the UK. 2 EK flights/day as a barometer.
LHR is full. Expand north and capture traffic for Brazil, EWR,MIA, Africa.
GLA
Same as BHX
ABZ
Go for oil/gas. LAD,GRU,ALG,TMS as target destinations. LH just launched 3 daily to FRA. Portugalia plane seems a good fit with more niche scope.

call me lunatic
[/armchair TP CEO/Route planner]

BER, TRN which are announced make sa lot of sense in the above context of higher yield/premium pax
Overall TP should work out a better stopover offering (like SQ sells Singapore as a destination within your trip, with hotel deals and free stopovers from selected origins). This helps the cases of overnight connections needed.

GBM

Koby

I don't think there is any link between TP and LH (except them being both members of *A)? Or did I miss something?

GBM.flights

You're right.
I just used "mama" LH in the sense of size, LH being the much larger company and dominant in the German market.
Therefore TP starting STR could face resistance from LH, and why TP would not rather focus on Spain, France, Italy or UK where traffic would not subtract pax (at least as many) to LH.

Looking into historical context of new(er) TP German routes, and supporting my [speculative] argument that LH seems to have a word on said routes:
TP announced DUS-LIS (S11) only after LH started the route (S10)
TP announced BER-LIS only after LH announced the 29 new routes from the (mini-)hub in Berlin and LIS being excluded and the only European *A hub not directly connected to BER.

GBM

tff

DUS seems to be the odd one out: TP and LH don't code-share (as they didn't in the MXP route operated by LHi).

TAP-A343

TLV

It will only work if there is enough demand between Israel and TP's Brazilian destinations excluding GRU (and even GIG) where most if not all of the European majors fly to, and use widebodies to TLV from their hubs. If there's enough Brazilian demand to Israel TP could capitalise on the language factor, though.

STR

Could be a good idea but I'm not sure if TP would be able to capture much corporate traffic that has probably contracts with LH.

BHX, GLA

Both have a UA non-stop flight to EWR. I'm not sure about the demand for Brazil and Portuguese-speaking Africa especially from GLA. EK is not really a barometer for TP, in my opinion. I think MAN is doing well though.

ABZ

I'm not sure at all about demand for LAD or GRU.

Considering that DME is apparently doing well, perhaps I would consider LED to bring more Russian tourists to Portugal.

On a side note, TP is selling OTP return for only €111 all included.

IAN-UK

Adding more UK routes to the network doesn't add up. Manchester has been TP's chosen second city in the UK for 20 years or so (in an on/off sort of way..). And it's a sensible choice as the MAN catchment area pulls in passengers from a wide area. BHX would cannibalise both Manchester AND London traffic. GLA/EDI are already connected to some useful hubs, while a bet on ABZ and the petroleum industry demand for LAD is unlikely to be promoted.

But then again, who'd have thought of night-flights to Bucharest

GBM.flights

According to the Jerusalem Post demand is there. 200k/yr South Americans (JJ codeshares can tackle that) travelling to Israel out of which 31k from Brazil.

TLV is not only or mostly served by widebodies by other carriers
From the European carriers serving TLV and GRU or GIG:
LH/LX/BA do
AF/KL/AZ/IB don't (at least regularly)



I think we all agree OTP is a very long and bizarre shot.

KLM seems fairly happy to have multiple frequencies to any airstrip in the UK, including MME, NWI or HUY. Seeing that my picks cannot be that bad
GBM

TAP-A343

Three flights a week year-round with a A319 in one direction would equate to around 20,000 seats available. Meaning, TP would have to get two thirds of the Brazilian demand, assuming there isn't much O&D traffic LIS-TLV. With JJ most likely to move to oneworld, I'm not sure TP will keep its code share agreements with them.

By the way, contrary to what PressTur.com is saying, TP is advertising OTP at €111 one way.

IAN-UK

Of course your picks aren't bad: just, as you say, KLM got there first

tff

TLV, CAI and IST are being mentioned as new TP destinations in Portuguese forums. I don't know how reliable they are, though.

GBM.flights

- You're ignoring Israelis travelling.
- for O&D Sun d'Or is running a weekly 757 (215 seater over the summer)
- I just found this very interesting article on Iberia TLV operation (executive summary: started in 1983, 264k seats in 2011 and significant connecting traffic among others LIS,MIA,GRU. Last summer they ran the A340 up to 4 times a week).

TLV and IST make sense to me. IST TK just announced daily IST-LIS up from 5 weekly.
CAI I think after the events of last year remains too volatile. I recall LH downgraded a 747 to a A321 over the winter which upset those in the M&M forum which were taking advantage of ex-CAI F fares.

Which portuguese forums do you recommend tff?

GBM