lin821

I am no senior, even though I have more and more senior moments.

I would like to provide some contexts though. There may have some competing explanations as to why Senior Travel Forum hasn't quite taken off. But let's think about seniors internet usage first. I just read a study last week on this topic. It's true there are more seniors online but the most popular use of internet is for email:
The above study may not represent how senior FTers use internet but it provides the (internet) behavior pattern among seniors in general. In other words, whether Senior Travel Forum would attract non-FTer seniors to FT. Giving the last couple months, it hasn't been a success. Maybe because there are other more popular travel sites senior citizens turn to when they need info. I just don't know. I only know the traffic is not busy enough. Yes, the views are more than the posts/threads. But is the number of views high enough to justify the uniqueness of Senior Travel Forum on FT?

Secondly, I believe there are more than 3 FTers in the senior categories. (Maybe HOM can give us a more accurate demographic number of senior FTers). Most of them choose not to participate (meaning post) in Senior Travel. It's safe to assume that their travel needs for info (or discussion) are met somewhere else. It could be other fora on FT. It could be other sites. I don't know.

Thirdly, FT has introduced the social groups/networking enhancement back in Fall, 2008. If currently Senior Travel Forum only serves a (relatively) very small number of FTers, a senior FTers social group may be a more vivid alternative than a stand-alone forum.

Furthermore, as Jenel had mentioned before, a sense of a (senior) community takes more than just 3 souls. Conversation among 3 people doesn't give a lifeline a forum requires. I rarely visit GLBT or Religious Travelers Forum. Judging by the number of threads alone, I believe both have a much stronger sense of community and much higher participation rates among FTers.

Rudy did have a point that we'll all grow old sooner or later. It appears FTers are not ready for a Senior Travel Forum since the majority are in their 30s & 40s (according to IB's stats on Flyertalk. Forgot where I saw it though). Maybe wait till enough active FTers become seniors then Senior Travel would have a better chance to survive.

Let's make the curtain call.

BiziBB

I have to agree again with the last few posters on this thread. I was thinking about the arguments put for and against earlier:
I am still not aware of any compelling arguments that the content and community can sustain the forum.
If I was responsible for considering the motion, I'd look at the number of regular users and whether there is enough new information and discussion to make it a useful pace for FTers to check in.

It comes back to evaluating whether the forum has lived up to what was proposed. If it has not delivered much content and audience, then perhaps it should archived in its current form until another time, when it can be reopened.

I think that a forum needs a certain number of regular contributors to generate enough newsworthy content and interest, to be self sustaining.

If not, I'd like to see the content moved to somewhere it can still be accesses (and built upon) until there is another attempt to open the forum.

There are many other areas of interest (especially FFPs) where there is potential (but maybe not enough actual new content and critical mass of participants) for an 'own-forum'. For example, Etihad. Etihad lacks its own forum but it exists, within a larger forum and is updated fairly often.
I would hope that any Seniors'-Special-Needs Travel could continue on in this way, in a TravelBuzz master thread or wherever appropriate (if the vote is approved).
That's the benefit of giving the forum a go. It didn't go as well as hoped, but you gave it a very good shot.
I've not seen any really memorable demonstration of that 'value' to all FTers - but would welcome a summary of its contribution to all FTers and especially all 55+ FTers (where appropriate)

I don't think this is the issue, but the viability of the Seniors forum itself.
However, what you describe is a side effect which I agree does hinder the work that hardworking TB members like yourself went through in 2008.

I agree - the TB reps need this evidence and arguments that the forum can be viable, despite its record to the contrary.

100% agree, unless it can be shown otherwise, here this week, I'm sad to say.

[QUOTE=kokonutz;11186151]I agree.
Bolding mine. I'm sure there ARE special travel needs - but are they being taken care of in the respective airline forums or elsewhere?
I have a question re. seniors travel but most of it relates either to an airline, alliance or FFP - thus it will not be seen in Seniors as the 'experts' are in the forums I just mentioned. (I think so, even if I'm wrong about that. )

I think it's a little unfair to hold all of the new forum creation activity of 2008 against this one forum, but it's up to regulars to explain why it is delivering value both to themselves and to casual visitors.

That's a tough job, but Seniors is not the only underperformer.
Unfortunately it's first in line to be considered, but i doubt it will be the last.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the thread to date.

Good luck!

BiziBB

Hi lin821, would the demographic info on FTers you're looking for is either traffic info from alexa.com's rating of FT...

or demographic info from BigBoards?

These were sources quoted by Randy for another topic.

(Note that Alexa also have the wayback machine. I know of some seniors who are great on that kind of older info. Though way more way back, than this. )


There is another source (or page from the links above) on demographics - FT skews a little older than I expected - it's firmly 35+ and skewed too middle aged males, married (or whatever ) with few kids.

Rudi

Please stop guessing about what my motivation is. Please discuss only my arguments and not my motivation (which only I can know, and nobody else).

My mentioning of my FT-past (and not accepting your implied 'selfishness' reason) had nothing to do with the future of this senior-forum - but everything with your guess for my reasons to 'defend' this senior forum. Please stop those selfishness arguments - they are unfair and not at all obvious as you claim them to be.

For me reasoning that maintaining that forum hurts FlyerTalk in any way (like preventing other new fora with potentially more threads and posts) is no issue.

I strongly believe that a/this senior forum will (very slowly but surely) grow, as individual FlyerTalkers will age.

I also believe that future seniors who started with FlyerTalk in earlier years (and in other FT fora) will use it later more often - I am not pretending that this FT Senior forum might attract many new FT first-time-members (but it is possible, as newbies often only start lurking and hesitate to start posting), but I see current FlyerTalkers in coming years having more inerest to find many/all travel related in one place (or with easy to use links on that senior forum leading to specific informations/answers) and those knowledgeable FT oldies than will have no posting 'barriers' as newbies might have.

nsx

This is the crux of the argument. To see the problem, it often helps to consider the limiting case. So try this thought experiment.

Imagine that FT had 1000 light-use forums similar to Seniors. Would FT be harmed in any way? I say yes: those 1000 forum titles would make it harder to find the heavily used forums.

You are correct that the Seniors Forum only does 0.1% as much damage as 1000 forums, but its benefit is also 0.1% of the benefit of those 1000 forums. So if you wouldn't want 1000 light-use forums that don't have a compelling purpose, you don't want any 1 of the 1000. That's how the math looks to me.

ozstamps

Not correct at all I am sorry.

I and others have posted to the general AARP discussion on the Senior's forum.

AARP benefits are not limited just to hotels of course. But one needs to be an AARP member as I am, to access those benefits. And to be an AARP member one needs - by definition - to be a senior, age wise.

If someone posted in the Starwood forum as to whether AARP deals are better than Hilton or Marriott etc and why - and ditto is all the other Hotel forums, the mods would close them as that is not how the forums work - and cross-posting is frowned upon. (As you know.)

So one certainly needs a Senior based forum for proper discussion of AARP benefits. For instance, to address the quoted post.

One could argue gays or women wanting to know which hotel chain was best for them and their needs could post in all those forums too .. thankfully they do not - as there are specific forums for them to do so in. @:-)

Glen
.

obscure2k

Glen,when I am looking at rates in hotel forums, I immediately check to see whether there are AARP or AAA rates. Moreover, I do the same when renting a car.
I just don't see the need for for an AARP Thread. The AARP and AAA rates are widely available elsewhere. I don't believe that someone seeking an AARP, AAA, ABA, AMA rate in a hotel or car rental forum would be booted-off as being off-topic.
Just my personal opinion.
The Senior Forum is moribund.

ozstamps

obscure2k - perhaps you should actually read the THREAD in question?

It is a GENERAL discussion about all AARP discounts and benefits.

Hey .. you might save some money. One of the great attractions of FT - for many of us.

obscure2k

Glen,
I have read the "THREAD" in question. I found it to be of little or no value.

ozstamps

Aah the wonders of FT. We all enjoy different things. Choice is a great luxury.

I have the same feelings about many entire forums, but luckily (for FT) Talkboard has not abolished them based on my view.

Rudi

I guess most/all US FTalkers know what AARP is. Myself I have (after 10 years of FlyerTalk ...) still no idea about the two other abbreveations you mention: ABA, AMA ?

I guess that FlyerTalkers from outside North America don't know, and have no idea how they too can become members (they even can become members and only pay the rates for members with a sanil mail address in the USA).

Also, seniors tend to be less knowledgable searching for (senior) themes in different locations/fora/threads and might be gratefull for a single place (may be with links to guide them to other fora/threads.) Example: if/which airlines or hotel-chains still offer senior discounts (and if those senior rates are competitive) is not easy to find out if they have to search through all airline or hotel fora.

obscure2k

ABA is American Bar Association
AMA is the American Medical Association

Rudi

Dangge = Danke = thank you ^

does Bar mean Bartenders or the organisation for lawyers?

BiziBB

Here is the link to FT demographics. Not necessarily correct (I'd never guarantee anything on FT ) and I'm quite skeptical how this info is obtained. Anyway, for your entertainment if nothing else.

Not quite as oldie-skewed as I recalled! Just old skewing compared to other forums, I suppose:
http://www.quantcast.com/flyertalk.com#demographics
Or in the headline summary - male, middle aged, Asian, no kids, affluent, with a degree or masters degree.

skywalkerLAX

I dont hold anything against it, just saying that the forum had time enough to show if it will be frequented or not. IMHO it did not show enough participation to justify remaining a forum for itself.

There is no limitation in fora per se but I rather get rid of rarely used ones before giving my vote to new experiments. Call it conservative if you like. The topics discussed will still have their place on FT as mentioned in the motion so as far there is a real topic nobody will loose here !

I absolutely agree. It's not the only one but bear with us for a while, the year just started and we are about to get rolling

To be continued... off to DFW