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Originally Posted by kokonutz
(Post 11189734)
The real question in my mind still is: are fewer seniors on line and comfortable in a FT-like environment in a "senior" forum?
<snipe> I just hate to abandon such an enormous and growing demographic without thinking really hard about WHY it has not taken off first. If nothing else it might help the TB have perspective on the next special interest request. I would like to provide some contexts though. There may have some competing explanations as to why Senior Travel Forum hasn't quite taken off. But let's think about seniors internet usage first. I just read a study last week on this topic. It's true there are more seniors online but the most popular use of internet is for email: WASHINGTON, Jan. 29 (UPI) -- A growing number of U.S. senior citizens, particularly those in the 70-75 age range, are taking part in online activities, a Washington think tank says. The Pew Research Center said in a release Wednesday that 45 percent of respondents aged 70 to 75 taking part in a series of recent surveys between 2006 and 2008 said they are currently active on the Internet.... The center's Internet & American Life Project surveys also found that the most popular online activity for Internet users above the age of 64 was e-mailing. Secondly, I believe there are more than 3 FTers in the senior categories. (Maybe HOM can give us a more accurate demographic number of senior FTers). Most of them choose not to participate (meaning post) in Senior Travel. It's safe to assume that their travel needs for info (or discussion) are met somewhere else. It could be other fora on FT. It could be other sites. I don't know. Thirdly, FT has introduced the social groups/networking enhancement back in Fall, 2008. If currently Senior Travel Forum only serves a (relatively) very small number of FTers, a senior FTers social group may be a more vivid alternative than a stand-alone forum. Furthermore, as Jenel had mentioned before, a sense of a (senior) community takes more than just 3 souls. Conversation among 3 people doesn't give a lifeline a forum requires. I rarely visit GLBT or Religious Travelers Forum. Judging by the number of threads alone, I believe both have a much stronger sense of community and much higher participation rates among FTers. Rudy did have a point that we'll all grow old sooner or later. It appears FTers are not ready for a Senior Travel Forum since the majority are in their 30s & 40s (according to IB's stats on Flyertalk. Forgot where I saw it though). Maybe wait till enough active FTers become seniors then Senior Travel would have a better chance to survive. Let's make the curtain call. |
Defenders of this forum - can you show evidence that Seniors is viable & can thrive?
I have to agree again with the last few posters on this thread. I was thinking about the arguments put for and against earlier:
I am still not aware of any compelling arguments that the content and community can sustain the forum. :(
Originally Posted by Hunki
(Post 11171551)
I still don't see what the problem is with you people who have the notion that just because the posts are low, that it's using up too much bandwidth so that it has to be closed.
It comes back to evaluating whether the forum has lived up to what was proposed. If it has not delivered much content and audience, then perhaps it should archived in its current form until another time, when it can be reopened.
Originally Posted by cblaisd
(Post 11171710)
As I noted in the other thread, 38% of the posts are by the same three members or former members of FlyerTalk. While they clearly find value in the venue to discuss things, I don't think that outweighs the fact that having this forum makes information harder to find for the ordinary FTer
...This doesn't help FT be an easy-to-use resource. If not, I'd like to see the content moved to somewhere it can still be accesses (and built upon) until there is another attempt to open the forum. There are many other areas of interest (especially FFPs) where there is potential (but maybe not enough actual new content and critical mass of participants) for an 'own-forum'. For example, Etihad. Etihad lacks its own forum but it exists, within a larger forum and is updated fairly often. I would hope that any Seniors'-Special-Needs Travel could continue on in this way, in a TravelBuzz master thread or wherever appropriate (if the vote is approved).
Originally Posted by bhatnasx
(Post 11172431)
For what it's worth, to the "politics" minded folks, for the record, the person who brought forth this motion originally voted for the forum:
Personally, I thought the Senior Travel forum was a bad idea from the beginning and still believe it is. cblaisd's points above echo my current thoughts on the matter.
Originally Posted by nsx
(Post 11172783)
This is exactly my thinking on the subject so far.
Each forum on FT needs to pull its own weight by providing value sufficient to justify the imposition of small inconveniences on every user of FT ...I'm open to persuasion, so give it your best shot, but make it fast.
Originally Posted by Jenbel
(Post 11172961)
It's not the bandwidth. It's the principle. Until TB is able to deal with failing forums, then they have to be more conservative with new forums.
...to ask that their forum be kept open for a handful of people, at the expense of future forums which may actually be able to work. However, what you describe is a side effect which I agree does hinder the work that hardworking TB members like yourself went through in 2008.
Originally Posted by kokonutz
(Post 11186009)
...turning to that way of thinking, here are the reasons I can see to support a seniors travel forum (as stated last May):
- Seniors have unique travel issues related to tastes, endurance and health. - Seniors have unique travel patterns based on their spare time and cash. - Saving points and miles for retirement is one of the top reasons people participate in points and miles programs. Makes sense to have a specific place on FT to talk about spending them for that purpose. - Demographically seniors are the fastest growing population in the developed world. - Other major travel sites have a seniors forum. Now having said that, I still have to, in my own mind, reconcile the potential for this forum against its use. ... I don't know. ...Saying this forum has been successful does not pass the red face test (to me, same applies to disability, fwiw). The question is: does that mean it needs to be shut down today? I guess I still haven't decided.
Originally Posted by magiciansampras
(Post 11186047)
Don't the poor numbers suggest that these things are either 1) unimportant or 2) misperceived? If the needs of seniors truly were unique, wouldn't we see more traffic in the forum? :confused:
All you need to do is take a look at where folks like Rudi and others who use the seniors forum hang out and post. They're in the places all the rest of us hang out and post. The reason is that they're getting their questions and answers from the same places as the rest of the FT community. The need is being met elsewhere. [QUOTE=kokonutz;11186151]I agree.
Originally Posted by magiciansampras
(Post 11186171)
I think it is because, to be perfectly blunt, GLBT travelers actually do have a special travel need and seniors don't. Senior travel is close enough to regular travel that many of the questions can be answered elsewhere. GLBT, it seems, has questions that can only really be answered and appreciated by GLBT travelers.
Originally Posted by magiciansampras
(Post 11186217)
ozstamps raises a good point. Is this vote really going to mean anything? Do we really think Randy is going to let TB shutter the senior's forum?
I have a question re. seniors travel but most of it relates either to an airline, alliance or FFP - thus it will not be seen in Seniors as the 'experts' are in the forums I just mentioned. (I think so, even if I'm wrong about that. :p)
Originally Posted by skywalkerLAX
(Post 11186705)
To add more and more and more mini-fora with little to no traffic makes no sense and doesnt serve FT in any way in the whole picture, and a handful user in total just doesnt justify an own forum IMHO. Every FTer is important to the community but we dont operate private chatrooms...with 3 members.
That's a tough job, but Seniors is not the only underperformer. Unfortunately it's first in line to be considered, but i doubt it will be the last. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the thread to date. Good luck! |
Hi lin821, would the demographic info on FTers you're looking for is either traffic info from alexa.com's rating of FT...
or demographic info from BigBoards? These were sources quoted by Randy for another topic. (Note that Alexa also have the wayback machine. I know of some seniors who are great on that kind of older info. Though way more way back, than this. :)) There is another source (or page from the links above) on demographics - FT skews a little older than I expected - it's firmly 35+ and skewed too middle aged males, married (or whatever ;)) with few kids. |
Originally Posted by Jenbel
(Post 11189347)
... To me, those defending the seniors forum want to put their needs before the needs of other forum users (and potentially many more other forum users than the handful of senior forum users).
You obviously feel justified in doing so - whether that be because you genuinely feel that it isn't an issue, or because you feel that you have given so much to FT that you should get your pet project supported. ... My mentioning of my FT-past (and not accepting your implied 'selfishness' reason) had nothing to do with the future of this senior-forum - but everything with your guess for my reasons to 'defend' this senior forum. Please stop those selfishness arguments - they are unfair and not at all obvious as you claim them to be. For me reasoning that maintaining that forum hurts FlyerTalk in any way (like preventing other new fora with potentially more threads and posts) is no issue. I strongly believe that a/this senior forum will (very slowly but surely) grow, as individual FlyerTalkers will age. I also believe that future seniors who started with FlyerTalk in earlier years (and in other FT fora) will use it later more often - I am not pretending that this FT Senior forum might attract many new FT first-time-members (but it is possible, as newbies often only start lurking and hesitate to start posting), but I see current FlyerTalkers in coming years having more inerest to find many/all travel related in one place (or with easy to use links on that senior forum leading to specific informations/answers) and those knowledgeable FT oldies than will have no posting 'barriers' as newbies might have. |
Originally Posted by Rudi
(Post 11190909)
For me reasoning that maintaining that forum hurts FlyerTalk in any way (like preventing other new fora with potentially more threads and posts) is no issue.
Imagine that FT had 1000 light-use forums similar to Seniors. Would FT be harmed in any way? I say yes: those 1000 forum titles would make it harder to find the heavily used forums. You are correct that the Seniors Forum only does 0.1% as much damage as 1000 forums, but its benefit is also 0.1% of the benefit of those 1000 forums. So if you wouldn't want 1000 light-use forums that don't have a compelling purpose, you don't want any 1 of the 1000. That's how the math looks to me. |
Originally Posted by obscure2k
(Post 11190030)
AARP promos can be addressed in the various hotel forums. I and others have posted to the general AARP discussion on the Senior's forum. AARP benefits are not limited just to hotels of course. But one needs to be an AARP member as I am, to access those benefits. And to be an AARP member one needs - by definition - to be a senior, age wise. :cool: If someone posted in the Starwood forum as to whether AARP deals are better than Hilton or Marriott etc and why - and ditto is all the other Hotel forums, the mods would close them as that is not how the forums work - and cross-posting is frowned upon. (As you know.) :D So one certainly needs a Senior based forum for proper discussion of AARP benefits. For instance, to address the quoted post. One could argue gays or women wanting to know which hotel chain was best for them and their needs could post in all those forums too .. thankfully they do not - as there are specific forums for them to do so in. @:-) Glen . |
Glen,when I am looking at rates in hotel forums, I immediately check to see whether there are AARP or AAA rates. Moreover, I do the same when renting a car.
I just don't see the need for for an AARP Thread. The AARP and AAA rates are widely available elsewhere. I don't believe that someone seeking an AARP, AAA, ABA, AMA rate in a hotel or car rental forum would be booted-off as being off-topic. Just my personal opinion. The Senior Forum is moribund. |
obscure2k - perhaps you should actually read the THREAD in question?
It is a GENERAL discussion about all AARP discounts and benefits. Hey .. you might save some money. One of the great attractions of FT - for many of us. ;) |
Originally Posted by ozstamps
(Post 11191452)
obscure2k - perhaps you should read the THREAD in quesrion.
It is a GENERAL discussion about all AARP discounts and benefits. Hey .. you might save some money. One of the great attractions of FT - for many of us. ;) I have read the "THREAD" in question. I found it to be of little or no value. |
Originally Posted by obscure2k
(Post 11191467)
I found it to be of little or no value. I have the same feelings about many entire forums, but luckily (for FT) Talkboard has not abolished them based on my view. ;) |
Originally Posted by obscure2k
(Post 11191409)
... The AARP and AAA rates are widely available elsewhere ...
I guess that FlyerTalkers from outside North America don't know, and have no idea how they too can become members (they even can become members and only pay the rates for members with a sanil mail address in the USA). Also, seniors tend to be less knowledgable searching for (senior) themes in different locations/fora/threads and might be gratefull for a single place (may be with links to guide them to other fora/threads.) Example: if/which airlines or hotel-chains still offer senior discounts (and if those senior rates are competitive) is not easy to find out if they have to search through all airline or hotel fora. |
Originally Posted by Rudi
(Post 11191556)
I guess most/all US FTalkers know what AARP is. Myself I have (after 10 years of FlyerTalk ...) still no idea about the two other abbreveations you mention: ABA, AMA ?
I guess that FlyerTalkers from outside North America don't know, and have no idea how they too can become members (they even can become members and only pay the rates for members with a sanil mail address in the USA). Also, seniors tend to be less knowledge searching for (senior) themes in different locations/fora/threads and might be gratefull for a single place (may be with links to guide them to other fora/threads.) Example: if/which airlines or hotel-chains still offer senior discounts (and if those senior rates are competitive) is not easy to find out if they have to search through all airline or hotel fora. AMA is the American Medical Association |
Originally Posted by obscure2k
(Post 11191631)
ABA is American Bar Association
AMA is the American Medical Association does Bar mean Bartenders or the organisation for lawyers? |
Here is the link to FT demographics. Not necessarily correct (I'd never guarantee anything on FT :D) and I'm quite skeptical how this info is obtained. Anyway, for your entertainment if nothing else.
Not quite as oldie-skewed as I recalled! Just old skewing compared to other forums, I suppose: http://www.quantcast.com/flyertalk.com#demographics Or in the headline summary - male, middle aged, Asian, no kids, affluent, with a degree or masters degree. |
Originally Posted by BiziBB
(Post 11190685)
I think it's a little unfair to hold all of the new forum creation activity of 2008 against this one forum, but it's up to regulars to explain why it is delivering value both to themselves and to casual visitors.
That's a tough job, but Seniors is not the only underperformer. Unfortunately it's first in line to be considered, but i doubt it will be the last. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the thread to date. Good luck! There is no limitation in fora per se but I rather get rid of rarely used ones before giving my vote to new experiments. Call it conservative if you like. The topics discussed will still have their place on FT as mentioned in the motion so as far there is a real topic nobody will loose here ! I absolutely agree. It's not the only one but bear with us for a while, the year just started and we are about to get rolling :) To be continued... off to DFW ;) |
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