NickB

At present, all airline FFPs come under a single common heading: "airline programs". The proposal would be to split this into four headings:

Airline programs: Oneworld airlines
Airline programs: Skyteam airlines
Airline programs: Star Alliance airlines
Airline programs: Other airlines

Existing fora for individual FFPs would remain the same but be put under the heading of the alliance they belong to. The AA forum would go under the OW heading; the AFKL forum would go under the ST heading; the SQ forum would go under the *A heading, etc...

In addition, each heading would have a forum for smaller programs which do not warrant their own forum. Thus, after AA, BA, CX, etc..., the OW heading would have an "Other Oneworld Airlines programs", in which threads related to IB, MA, LA or RJ would go.

Finally, the existing alliance fora, which deal with systemic issues (RTWs, lounge network, etc...), would also be moved under the respective heading.Thus, for under the OW heading, after "Other Oneworld Airlines programs", there would also be a "Oneworld: systemwide issues".

In addition to the three alliances, there would need to be a heading for 'non-aligned' airlines, with the bigger programs with their own forum listed alphabeticaly as now and the smaller programs grouped on a regional basis as of now.

Thus whereas the current system looks like this (each * represents a distinct forum and headings are in bold):
Airline programs
*Air Canada Aeroplan
*Airlines of India
*Air New Zealand Air Points
(etc..)
*Other Middle East and Africa Frequent Flyer Programs
*Other North & South America Frequent Flyer Programs

Global Airline Alliances
*oneworld
*SkyTeam
*Star Alliance

The new system would look like this:

Airline programs: Oneworld airlines
*American AAdvantage
*British Airways Executive Club
*Cathay Pacific Asia Miles
*Finnair Plus
*JAL Mileage Bank
*Qantas Frequent Flyer
*Other Oneworld Airlines programs (Iberia, Malev, Lan and Royal Jordanian)
* Oneworld systemwide issues

Airline programs: Skyteam airlines
*Alitalia MilleMiglia
*Continental OnePass
*Delta SkyMiles
*Flying Blue (Air France & KLM)
*Korean Air Skypass
*Northwest WorldPerks
*Other Skyteam Airlines programs (Aeroflot, Aeromexico, China Southern, Czech Airlines)
*Skyteam systemwide issues

Airline programs: Star Alliance airlines
*Air Canada Aeroplan
*Air New Zealand Air Points
(etc...)
*United Mileage Plus
*US Airways Dividend Miles
*Other Star Alliance Airlines programs (Air China, Egyptair, Shangai Airlines, South African Airways, Spanair, TAP)
*Star Alliance systemwide issues

Other Airline programs
*Airlines of India
*AirTran Airways A+ Rewards
*Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan
*El Al Matmid
*Emirates Airlines Skywards
*Frontier Airlines EarlyReturns
*Hawaii-based Airlines
*JetBlue TrueBlue
(etc...)
*Virgin flying club
*Virgin America eleVAte
*WestJet "Passenger Perks"
*Other Asian, Australian and South Pacific Frequent Flyer Programs
*Other European Frequent Flyer Programs
*Other Middle East and Africa Frequent Flyer Programs
*Other North & South America Frequent Flyer Programs

The main rationale for this is that those belonging to an FFP are more likely to be interested by the other airline in the same alliance than airline which happen to be alphabetically close to them. At present, airlines in the same alliance are spread all over the list and one has to scroll up and down to go from one to the other. Having related fora nearby would facilitate cross-fertilisation between related fora (and hopefully less cross-posting)



A couple of ancillary issues:
1) thread prefixes in "Other (alliance X) programs": while the use of thread prefixes in many fora is debatable, a good use of thread prefixes could be made here. The "Other Oneworld Airlines programs" could have thread prefixes for each of the smaller programs (Iberia Plus, Malev Duna club. etc...). This could help if an airline switches alliances (or leaves one) and the mods need to migrate relevant threads. If filtering on prefix is eventually possible, this would be handy too.

2) while not required, it could be considered whether semi-performing fora (eg: Alitalia) could be reintegrated into the "Other (alliance X) Airlines Programs" ("Other Skyteam Airlines Programs" in the AZ case), which is halfway between throwing them back into the general "Other" pot (which is the only possibility at present) and leaving them entirely self-standing. But this is a separate issue, the merits of which does not need to be discussed here.

3) With smaller European programs most often discussed moving to alliance-based fora, perhaps the generic "Other European" and "Other European and African" residual fora could be merged into a single EMEA region, reflecting the IATA areas.

wharvey

I totally support this idea. It would really organize things... another site I visit is organized via alliances, and it is very helpful when you want to look for info by alliance.

Jenbel

I've been sitting trying to find something to complain about with it, and it's actually a really logical idea ^

JanoSicek

I think that this is very logical proposal.

One addition: Exclusion of various smaller programs was probably due to too many airlines in the forum, as it was hard to find the one which you were searching for. Now if we split all airlines in 4 groups by Alliances, we can create sub-fora for smaller programs without loosing clarity.

Another: I would like to see the two-letter acronym of an airline on the beginning of each sub-fora. Therefore it would be "AA American AAdvantage" and "CX Cathay Pacific Asia Miles" ... Reason -- two capital letters are visible and you can find them easily by quick scanning the page with your eyes.

Last point: There is no need for "Systemwide alliance sub-forum" for each alliance, as each topic that is systemwide can be posted directly to the alliance group.

An example of how it could look like:
Airline programs: Oneworld airlines
*AA American AAdvantage
*AY Finnair Plus
*BA British Airways Executive Club
*CX Cathay Pacific Asia Miles
*IB Iberia something
*JL JAL Mileage Bank
*LA Lan something
*MA Malev something
*QF Qantas Frequent Flyer
*RJ Royal Jordanian something
sticky 1
sticky 2
sticky 3
general topic 1
general topic 2
general topic 3

Jenbel

There is a point where it's better to have smaller airlines amalgamated, just so that people who might know something about them have a chance of being able to read about them.

For example, there are BA flyers who fly Royal Jordanian pretty frequently - but who might not have the time to read a specific forum for that airline, but who might have the time to browse a 'oneworld other' where questions about Royal Jordainan/Malev etc are asked.

I also don't particularly want to see airline forums downgraded to sub-forums, since that should be the basic currency of FT. Would also beg the question as to what would happen with existing sub-forums (AF, KL, LX for example - woudl they become sub-sub-forums?).

NickB

I wonder whether there might be a small misunderstanding here.

For the sake of clarity, I am not proposing the creation of new fora for alliances with individual airline FFPs as subfora but rather the creation of new headings (similar to the current 'Airline programs' heading) with airline fora remaining normal fora.

On the smaller programs issue, I agree with Jenbel. There comes a point when creating a forum for an individual airline FFP is counter-productive. If a forum does not create enough traffic, potential contributors won't bother looking at it. Beyond a certain level of activity, you are better off keeping smaller programs in a common forum.

SanDiego1K

Currently, the forums where global alliances are discussed are used predominantly to discuss RTW programs. The OneWorld forum, for example, has highly sophisticated users of this product. This is quite a different matter than labeling the forum "OneWorld systemwide issues".

Any new system needs to retain the intent of the current Airline Alliance forums.

NickB

No problem with that. I know what the fora are about (I do venture on them every now and then): RTWs a lot but also a number of other systemwide concerns such as lounge networks, various aspect of integration within the alliances (cf the thread on booking class alignment in the *A forum), rumours on potential new members, etc...

I have not given much thought as to which title exactly to use for the generic alliance fora and would much welcome appropriate suggestions.

kokonutz

At first blush I have a VERY positive reaction to this proposal. And I agree with the notion that we'd need to retain the 'generic talk about the alliance' forum as one of the forums under the category, whatever it is called.

But this is such a major change that I think there needs to be a great deal of consideration of it and especially some deep thought put into potential unintended consequences.

For example, how much harder/less intuitive would it be for someone who doesn't know what an alliance is to know where to post about Air China vs. China Southern?

Do airlines switching alliances (hello, CO) impact where and how things are posted?

Would the change lead to lounge threads being split between the generic alliance forum and specific airline forums differently than they currently are? Upgrade policy threads? Award and upgrade availability and processing threads?

As Jebel says, tough to see a downside to this good idea. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try really hard to see any...

Thanks for the idea, NickB!!!

nsx

Would the same re-ordering of forums apply to the Forum Jump list (at the bottom of each displayed thread)?

djk7

I like the current alphabetical listing. I can find any airline forum quickly, and don't have to guess which alliance they belong to, or search 4 different places.

I would prefer to keep the current list as the default, and maybe add a "group by alliance" button for those who prefer that view.

apoivre

It does look like a brilliant idea at the first sight - and I would subscribe to the Other Skyteam Airlines forum in a heart-bit. However, there's a small hiccup - it only really works if you take the current Airline Programs header out of its context. Unfortunately, there are other things than miles and points being discussed on FT so the real hierarchy in the Miles&Points section goes like this:

MILES&POINTS
-->Airline Programs
-------->lots of specific fora
-->Global Airline Alliances
-------->3 specific fora
-->Hotel Programs
-------->lots of specific fora
-->Credit Card Programs
-------->lots of specific fora
-->Car Rental Programs
-------->lots of specific fora
-->Other Loyalty Programs
-------->lots of specific fora
-->Discontinued Programs

OT basically proposes to change it to this:

MILES&POINTS
-->Airline programs: Oneworld airlines
-------->lots of specific fora
-->Airline programs: Skyteam airlines
-------->lots of specific fora
-->Airline programs: Star Alliance airlines
-------->lots of specific fora
-->Airline programs: Other airlines
-------->lots of specific fora
-->Hotel Programs
-------->lots of specific fora
-->Credit Card Programs
-------->lots of specific fora
-->Car Rental Programs
-------->lots of specific fora
-->Other Loyalty Programs
-------->lots of specific fora
-->Discontinued Programs

Now this implies that, say, "Airline programs: Oneworld airlines" (that is, a few airline FFPs) is somehow hierarchically as relevant as, say, all Hotel Programs as a whole. Which it is not.

Perhaps, a consensus may be reached that no one will really notice/pay attention - I mean, we all learned to live with the current structure where Global Airline Alliances is the odd one out The potential usefulness of the new structure will outweigh the formalities, right?

And even if the proposal is not implemented, perhaps we might at least see individual airline prefixes in all the "Other .... Airlines" fora and in the fora of major programmes that happen to be native FFPs for smaller airlines as well - like Miles and More for LO or Flying Blue for UX, to cite a couple instances?

skywalkerLAX

This proposal of course sets in stone that every FT user knows in what alliance the respective airline is for which s/he is looking.

Thanks for the detailed example in the OP, I understand better what your ideas are about now.

For me this one issue remains, how do you want direct a user without knowledge about the alliance of the respective airline to the correct forum ?

Thanks & Cheers,

Seb.

oklAAhoma

Agreed.

I think the proposal is a great idea, but... I do wonder if such a change would make it harder for those who are unfamiliar with the global alliances to navigate the site.

magiciansampras

My question as well.