The host of this bulletin board is very much aware that TalkBoard, which he established, is charged with making recommendations to him and that he retains the right to accept those recommendations or not.

IMHO, a TalkBoard member should vote according to what he believes is the best course for FT to follow. I am not one of the people who say that a TalkBoard member should go along with whatever a majority of posters on a particular issue say -- but he should also not just tell Randy what he believes (or even knows) Randy prefers to hear.

TalkBoard members were voted into office to use their own judgment and to vote accordingly. This may wind up making a particular member unpopular, perhaps even costing him re-election, or it might cause Randy to be unhappy with that member -- but neither possibility should be a concern.

Dov, you've been making a lot of sense lately. I want to thank you. :)

But you forgot to say that other FTers might feel differently.

Hint? Well Rich please face the hard facts you ran rather un-successfully for the last 2 Talkboards. If you are not prepared to listen to the views of those who were actually elected in those and other elections, such as wharvey and Spiff and dovster above, all of with whom I served, I think some reading this may feel you might have the relevance problem, not the other way around? Just a thought. @:-)

I imagine all TB members volunteer well over 200 hours of time during each term, and you seem to be implying that is all wasted time unless you are part of the process?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=761215

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showp...9&postcount=73

If you imagine Hillary does not ask Bill a few pieces of advice right now you'd be wrong, but hey that is one for Omni. :D

I do not see anyone mentioning elections that occurred 5 years ago -- certainly it was not me, as I just completed my term.

All I pointed out was that I seconded and voted for the the exact action that has now been implemented by Randy and am pleased to see it occur.

http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=563745

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? :td:

Recommendations? Sure.

Badgering him to change his mind on relatively trivial matters? No, at least not me.

This isn't a case of telling Randy what he wants to hear. It's about not treating Randy like someone who's not allowed to make his own decisions about the board he founded and now hosts on behalf of its new owners without a small vociferous minority jumping all over him. I don't think TalkBoard should add to the pile-on by a small number of dissatisfied individuals.

Done. :)

It isn't. :)

525 posts so far. when does the voting period end?

Not soon enough. :D

So you think that OMNI post counts are trivial?

You also think that TB motions constitute "badgering"?

What would be a non-trivial manner in your opinion? Maybe the kinds of smilies we have available to us?

I'm glad you find this such a trivial matter. If this is so trivial then you wouldnt mind just allowing those of us who actually care about it so much to have our way? :rolleyes:


If Randy was making these decisions by himself then I wouldnt even have a gripe or concern. However based on the actions I have seen him take it appears that he takes input from other sources.

Randy is more than capable of listening to whomever he deems, and his creation of TB wouldnt work otherwise.

As far as the "small number" I'm not seeing many more people weighing in on the pro-choice side. The numbers argument, just like the triviality argument, is nothing more than an attempt to discount and dismiss the questions being asked. I'm extremely disappointed that it has come to that line of reasoning, plus the personal attacks that ozstamps has started to use...

double post. Please delete

magicianampras, before you start thanking me, you might want to keep in mind that I am against this motion.

Where I disagree with Randy, however, is that I don't think he went far enough. Indeed, the motion which I made last year wasn't sufficient (as it was restricted only to Omni) but at least it was to stop counting the Omni posts retroactively. Randy has not done that.



Spiff, apparently quite a few people -- on both sides of this issue -- don't consider the matter relatively trivial.

Indeed, if I were on TalkBoard today and I saw from our internal discussions that my motion from last year had a chance of passing, I would make it again. If I saw that a stronger one did (discounting all posts from non M&P forums/threads), I would make that motion.

I would not have made the current motion but once it was made and seconded, I would have voted on it according to my own view of its merits.
As someone who has long been against Omni posts being counted, I obviously would have voted against it. I would hope that all TB members cast their ballots with that one question in mind: it it better for FT to count Omni posts or not?

Actually Dov, that's not the motion. While it's certainly a consideration in the motion, it's not the motion, and I prefer to actually vote on the motion, not what I would like the motion to be...

It's not up to me; that decision has been made. Permitting a few people to "have their way" on a relatively trivial matter is not something I'm going to badger Randy about. He's capable of making some choices for the bulletin board that he started and now hosts on behalf of the new owners without being hammered for those decisions, despite a few people thinking otherwise.


This thread is not the only place for people to register their opinions on the matter. @:-)

Well, as a TalkBoard member, when the voting on the current motion is complete you are free to make a new motion worded exactly the way you want it.

Face facts, Dov. Your views are now as irrelevant as mine, regardless of what you posted above. The rest is insulting - somehow because I didn't win a TB campaign I should be listened to less than someone who did?

Thanks for your service during your term, but your term is over.

Nothing, but as a public service guide, I'll repost the list of logical fallacies held on Wikipedia and ozstamps can choose which one(s) he's chosen to deploy here.

I'll give one for free: The John Kerry "Do you know who I am (was)?" Fallacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy

Face just one fact, Rich: That was Oz you quoted, not me. :D

Sorry. It did seem so very much unlike you, after all.

Maybe it's the Aussie weather that's getting to me. Or the Truman Show like world that is Canberra :)

--Rich

This is the whole thing in a nut shell.

Post counts are meaningless. Does anyone in their right mind think that someone who joined FT in Nov 06 and has 34,294 posts (71.99 posts as day) is actually more knowledgeable than someone who is known and posts in a specific forum, or forums, most of the time? He/she may be...but may not be. It's up to the members of the forums to make their own informed decisions.

OMNI counting games and other bubble wrap poppers are just time killers for people with nothing else to do. I would be very happy with no post counts from OMNI and other time wasting threads ...like the lounges.

In fact, all that is needed is a post count to get to CC and OMNI and then do away with all counts and titles.

You can't spend Post Counts

Actually, it is about asking Randy to change his mind on a decision he made. OMNI post counts just happen to be the topic of the decision.


Same here.

You beat me to it! :D

Perhaps if that motion is made once again, they can vote on it. However, that is not the motion that was made here nor should it be the one that is voted on.

Maybe if there's any flesh left on the horse, it can be dug up and beaten some more. :D

Now there's an idea for a new smiley ... beating the bones of the dead horse! ;)

Poor horse! :(

;)

Some people seem to have forgotten what the motion is and when voting ends.... so a friendly reminder!

Actually here you advocate for an OMNI Games Forum.

"that the Talkboard recommend that Randy reconsider his decision to implement the policy of not counting posts in OMNI toward post totals and instead count OMNI posts in a poster's post count."

This poll will close on Feb 29, 08 at 5:10 am (EDT)

Hooray! Another reason to celebrate on Feb 29 ;)

Im in favor of posts counting....

Did I already vote...? :D

I hear 100x in a row :D:D

This election is drawing to a close and, although I have asked several times, I still have seen only one or two answers from folks stating why they personally were against OMNI posts counting.

Those reasons both indicated that they felt high post counts by gamesters (them) incited jealousy in folks who earned their post counts by "serious" posts (us). Of course, jealousy is a very ugly emotion, which we should all strive to avoid, but IMHO those inclined to suffer from jealously for one reason will just turn around and find another reason to suffer jealousy once the first reason is removed.

Again, I don't think that "It's better for FlyerTalk" is a logical reason without explaining why, and how, it is better for FlyerTalk. I have been working hard to set rhetoric, history, and sarcasm aside and find some clear-cut, serious reasons for opposing OMNI posts counts.

Before I vote, I would really like to hear some substantive reasoning from those of you who are opposed to OMNI posts counting. Otherwise, I am swayed by the reasonable logical argument that a post is a post and, that since all a post count can indicate is participation in FT, they should all count.

There are a plethora of reasons here, if you don't want to hear them it becomes a moot point.

I also question why one would second a motion that one had not decided was worthy of an "aye" vote. That smacks of politics.

I answered in the other thread you started. Seems you don't want to hear what I have to say (I didn't mention jealousy nor could it be inferred from my point) :(

So it's onlu a vote on a recommendation to Randy to reconsider his decision not to post count for OMNI but it's simply that, a recommendation, correct? He's not bound in any way by this vote? And if he declines to reconsider is there anything preventing motions to this effect being made again and often?

Just curious...

Loosely stealing a quote from my colleague, Cholula, "I would second a ham sandwich".

Translation for those of you who don't get it: If an elected TalkBoard member has an idea that they think is worthy of a motion, I will second it, whether or not I agree with it, just because I think any idea that a TalkBoard member thinks worthy of a motion is worthy of discussion and consideration, both private and public.

IMHO, the statement that there are a "plethora of reasons" here, is no reason at all and does nothing for to convince me one way or the other. I would very much appreciate if anyone (including Clue ByFour, Randy, or anyone else, who has a clear, specific, cognitive, comprehensible, reason that they do not believe OMNI posts should count), would clearly and concisely post that reason here, to help me better prepare for my vote.

Thank you very much.

So what exactly was your specific reason, Kiwi Flyer? Or yours, Clue?

Sometimes people talk and talk and talk and it is really hard to figure out if they have said anything. I have tried to read every post, painful as it might be, in search of real answers and have failed to find any, beyond the jealousy bit, so, if you actually have any, help me out and share them with me here and now.

It appears, tcook052, that Randy has reconsidered the motion and rejected it, so I guess from that standpoinrt the motion was a success, or maybe a failure, depending on one's point of view. ;) Of course, Randy at this point can always do anything he darned well pleases regardless of what TalkBoard or the general membership think or say. That is why we call it a benevolent dictatorship. :D

No, tcook052, the is no prohibition against starting another, maybe even better, motion after, or even before this one concludes.

Doesn't this uncritical approach defeat the purpose of requiring a second? Meaning to establish a minimum level of support and avoid unproductive (or worse) use of TB's time? I'm puzzled.

Apologies. It was actually earlier in this thread that I gave a reason, not another thread.

PS I've posted 6 times in this thread - 4 of these posts being in response to questions directed specifically at me. Hardly talk and talk and talk, and perhaps you can see why I feel you've skipped over my earlier posts?

Like this thread, for example?

That's what I thought you'd say, thought why you'd put forward a motion before the last one was voted upon is a little beyond me...

Oh, exactly like much of this thread. :D :D :D You Kiwi Flyer do not, IMHO, fall into this group.

Well, to tell you the truth, tcook052, I probably would not put forward another motion before this one was completed, but, you asked the question and I, as a good little TalkBoard member, was trying to help you understand the procedure as best I could.

As far as Kiwi Flyer's idea goes, he has expressed his unsubstantiated opinion. It could be right and it could be wrong. I have no better way of knowing if it is true than he does. It is certainly a better opinion to consider than "I think it is in the best interests of FlyerTalk to discontinue OMNI post counts" but certainly not emperical or binding.

You may puzzle away, nsx, but I am all for communitiy involvement and think that the general membership has a right to know about, and give input on, all things being considered by TalkBoad.

Again, I am just not egomaniacal enough to think that only those subjects with which I agree are worthy of discussion and considertion.