GUWonder

As a result of your position, a position that I suspect is a factor for at least one other or more TalkBoard members, I hereby get off the fence (if there ever was a relevant one) and encourage a wrap-up of the RT forum.

Dovster

I have no idea of how you read anything connected to the RT Forum into what Jenbel posted.

TB will not consider this proposal because it is currently voting on a related one (Airlines of India).

There is a hesitation by some TB members -- including both Jenbel and myself -- to approve special interest forums unless we know that under-utilized special interest forums (like Religious Travel) can be removed, but that does not extend to other types of forums.

If it did, the Alitalia and Italy Forums, among others, would not have passed this year.

GUWonder

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...38#post8695838

Whether meant to apply here or not, the effective push for the RT forum -- credit goes to Dovster for lobbying hard for the RT forum -- and the subsequent TalkBoard failure to close the RT forum has diminished the chances for this forum proposal to advance where TalkBoard members would otherwise have said "let's give it a try" but are now unwilling to do so.

I can understand that you want to delink the issues. But I can also understand why linking the issues makes sense for some others, TB members or not.

Jenbel

I'm frankly confused. I say that we won't be considering (well technically it would be highly unlikely to consider) a separate Jet forum because we have a vote tabled on creating an Airlines of India forum, and you think it's because we don't want to give a Jet forum a chance because of the RT forum?

Did it occur that it might be because it's a little illogical to consider two such closely related areas, the outcomes of which would greatly affect the other, at the same time?

If an airlines of India forum is created, it will certainly delay any creation of a 9W forum in the short term, since a more suitable home IMHO will have been provided, but will likely increase the chances of a separate forum in the medium to long term - if all the demand that is being expressed on this thread is realised and Jet comes to dominate the forum.

GUWonder

Already "occurred". It would be considered "illogical" by those who don't think a 9W board makes sense by itself.

But some who think a 9W forum AND an "Other Airlines of India" forum makes sense would not consider it "illogical". Nor would it be "illogical" for those who want a 9W forum but don't really care (or care as much) about a broader Airlines of India forum. That is, there are proponents of a 9W forum who are "settling" for an "airlines of India forum" because the 9W forum itself was a harder sell.

Saying a 9W forum is a "trial" would make for a better sell to TalkBoard if it could be demonstrated that "trials" actually do exist and if the "trial" doesn't meet expectations there's an action plan that gets implemented that proves it was just a "trial". [That failure-to-meet-expectations action plan being something like the threads get converged into a "larger" forum with more traffic and the more specialized forum is disappeared or becomes a sub-forum.]

Dovster

That is patently untrue.

The failure to close the RT Forum may well impact on other special interest group proposals (Flying with Pets, Government Travel. etc) but not on the bread-and-butter points and miles forums.

GUWonder

No. What I said is patently true but you clearly don't want it recognized as such given your words above.

The failure to demonstrate that TalkBoard-instituted "trial" forums are actually trial forums and get "closed" if they fail to meet expectations makes it harder to push for a 9W forum on the grounds of "let's give it a trial". If a "trial" helped push forward the Religious Traveler forum why not allow a "trial" for a 9W forum on the same "trial" basis?

As a TalkBoard member, are you willing to push in favor of a 9W-specific forum by sponsoring and getting a co-sponsor for the motion to establish a 9W-specific forum?

Jenbel does not seem inclined to support a 9W-specific forum as a "trial" run at the current moment. Given what she said, we are left recognizing that the "trial" approach is not acceptable to her at the current moment due in part to the experience with the RT forum and that forum still remaining open.

Are you going to push forward a 9W-specific forum on behalf of those FTers here who wish to have such a forum, say on a "trial" basis like the RT forum you so effectively pushed for?

Perhaps you can start by finding a co-sponsor to eliminate the RT forum so that the "trial" basis approach can be applied again and appear more credible, say to Jenbel too. Are you willing to go forward now and sponsor or co-sponsor a motion to eliminate the RT forum?

Dovster

No, I am not -- but it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I was unable to get the RT Forum closed (yes, you failed to mention that in addition to being the one who pushed to get it passed I was also the one who made the motion to close it).

I am not in favor of a 9W specific forum. I am in favor of an Airlines of India Forum, for which I voted.

Now, if I were GUWonder, I would be asking myself, "Self, if Dovster is truly afraid to get any new forum established because RT did not get closed, would he have voted to establish the Airlines of India Forum? Isn't it possible, Self, that he actually means what he is saying and is only hesitant to establish any new special interests forums?"

Jenbel

Actually, you are putting words in my mouth. My lack of support for an independent forum for 9W has nothing to do with the RT experience, but instead my belief that there is not enough activity with 9W to support an independent forum. Even if the RT forum had been closed down, the level of activity for 9W falls below the level of activity I would be willing to trial. I may be wrong, and the supporters of a 9W forum may get a compromise in the airlines of India forum, and an opportunity to prove their case more.

ewrfox

How is that mindless? Its the other airlines that is keeping that forum alive and not 9W or any of the other Airlines of India.. You remove the other Asian airlines and you’ll end up having a dead forum.. So its not in the best interest of FT to create a new forum where you’ll have a very few posters, since the “Airlines of India” can’t even establish itself currently in its allocated forum..

GUWonder

If that is what I really did -- I don't take my own words, those in my post to which you replied, to be putting words in your mouth -- then pardon me.

Are you following own words a statement of principle where someone calls for a "trial" forum specifically in this 9W case?

GUWonder

I would not be asking myself that, because I never asserted that "Dovster is truly afraid to get any new forum established because RT did not get closed".

I've watched your votes and political games on TalkBoard close enough to know better than to assert something I know not to be the case.

So you are not in favor of a 9W specific forum. Does that cover a trial run of the 9W forum as well?

It just seems interesting that a trial run for the RT forum gets support but a trial run of a 9W-specific forum is held hostage to other TalkBoard motions.

I am just looking for some consistent application of principles in TalkBoard voting.

Jenbel

Yes, that would apply in cases where I was unsure if a forum would succeed or not - but I don't think that a trial is appropriate for every forum which anyone wants to suggest.

Dovster

1. I do not believe in giving "trial runs" to forums. I do believe that when I vote to establish a forum I should be prepared to vote to dismantle it -- be it after one year or 5 years. As I said repeatedly, I think a forum is viable with 100 threads in the first year and 200 a year after that.

2. Before voting to establish any forum I have to believe -- even if incorrectly -- that it will probably succeed. I do not feel that way about a stand-alone 9W forum.

Cholula

Since it's public knowledge that TB is now voting on an Airlines of India forum, where Jet Airways could have it's new home, I'm curious why everybody is still debating a standalone Jet Airways forum.

This current Jet Airways forum thread has been around since mid-July and has apparently fallen on deaf TB ears as no motion was ever forthcoming.

The much newer Airlines of India forum thread has garnered enough TB support that a motion was made and seconded and voting is taking place as I write.

I see the Airlines of India forum as a rational first step in the process. If, as many folks claim, Jet Airways becomes the 800# gorilla in a robust Airlines of India forum, I will be the first to support Jet having it's own stand alone forum.

Now, don't get me wrong. If folks just want to debate an issue just for drill, then be my guest. But a Jet Airways forum, for now, is a non-starter as best as I can see.