Otherwise it would seem to be a stealth attack on his leadership/ownership of FT.

I don't share this opinion at all.

The Talk Board members are free to post their protocolls/decision on FlyerTalkBoard (why not here in this Forum?). I don't think they need any permission (other than from a majority of TalkBoard members) to do so.

I am quite happy with Randy. I am not at all satisfied, with the 'hiding' behind Randy and non-communicating policy of the TalkBoard.

I don't buy the non-communicating-argument of finalized TalkBoard-decisions/recommendations (by re-posting the vote about not going public during the discussion phase).

I don't mind at all (I suport this) keeping current TalkBoard discussions still intern/private.

I mind, not communicating when the TalkBoard did made up their (majority) mind/did finalize rules/recommendations. Like not communicating, that the guide-lines for moderators (according to BlondeBombers post, such guidelines were agreed on/voted already past winter) and not posting/sharing these guidelines with us.

I will not speak on the work of the Talkboard itself because I agreed to abide by the rules that were passed by the original members of that board.

However, we all need to remember, this is Randy board. He, and only he, can decide what gets implemented. Recommendations are made to him... nothing more.

Could communications have been better? Probably. Could decisions have been implemented quicker? Probably. But most of the recommendations of the TB have been implemented... even if they were not communicated.

Randy has been pretty good about indicating when decisions were TB initiated... GLBT board, condensing of forums, creation of Amtrak forums.

I am appreciative that Randy thought enough about us to ask our opinions and consider our recommendations. He certainly did not ned to do that... it was his choice.

I too am very concerned that people here appear to be questioning his leadership.

Some of the comments in this thread in essence attack Randy and the TB for not communicating... and then re-attack when there is communication - but not exacting (ie. date of elections). You may say they don't ... but go back and read them from Randy's point-of-view. How else should it be read?

If you believe the TB has outlived its purpose (or failed) why are you so insistent on the next elections or communications? If Randy was not happy, I am sure he would disband the Board.

I have personally tried to represent different perspectives during my board tenure and I am comfortable that other TB members have as well.

Finally, I would echo hfly's comments. If you have an issue with Randy's handling of things, contact him directly. I have personally found him very responsve to emails.

William

If you have an issue with Randy's handling of things, contact him directly. I have personally found him very responsve to emails.

I repeat myself:
* I have no issue' with Randy, but I don't agree with the way TalkBoard members don't communicate at all about decisons/proposals made/(against the agreed and published 'procedures'. They are published in Town Hall).
* as initially posted above, I even proposed (as one option) to give up Town Hall at all, instead of not updating it.
* And now (as also posted already) I follow PremEx' suggestions (no Talk Board vote 'representing' FlyerTalkers anymore. If Randy seeks advise/opinions he for sure can get it always from most of us).
* as long as I was a member of the Talk-board, we (only) voted for not disclosing internal TalkBoard discussions. On the other side, we initially decided to post/communicate our 'conclusions/recommendations' once we have made our 'Talk Board mind'. And this decision to communicate you can also reread in Town Hall).

I don't want and don't like to 'fight' TalkBoard members. I want them to tell me what's going on (once decisions have been made) and not pretending that I ever voted against communicating TalkBoard decisions!

Commmunication can easily be done outside the Town Hall. Why not here for example?

[This message has been edited by Rudi (edited 10-10-2002).]

Thanks very much, to hfly, dan, and wharvey, and to all the TB memebers for representing our collective views as best you all could! While it's not always evident, I think we generally all do appreciate your efforts- at least I certainly do.

And particular thanks to you each for trying to communicate your thoughts here in this thread!

I think we are all appreciative of Randy & Co for providing the FT boards, and for the tremendous ongoing time, resources, efforts, and so on that that's continually put into it! It shows! Thanks so much!

Still, as Randy well knows, I'm personally, extremely independent, and I do not always agree with him. I do not think, however, that he minds one bit, and I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong! While no one is criticiziing him here, IMHO, I do not think that he is completely above being criticized. Certainly he wanted to be asked questions and always seemed to appreciate the feedback he received in the past. Nor do I think that he wants to censor the members, or the TB itself.

Yet, on the issue of communication, is it not indisputable that it could've been better? And it should be!

The Moderator issue I'd so oft inquired about is just one example, and the Presidential election scenario is another.

I hope communication will be improved dramatically - and very soon too!

FWIW, I thought the relatively rapid resignations of Pam, Dorian, Rudi, and then Punki as well, for whatever understandable reasons, cast a bit of an unfortunate spell on the TB, sadly.

I hope this can be overcome, however, if its not already, and I do think that a more open policy would truly go a long way toward doing do!

It's 10/10/02 already, as we all know, and so maybe Randy will perhaps comment today?

He is on chat this evening remember!

Thanks!

Just MHO,

Mark

I hope that Randy's chat does not disintegrate into a discussion of when the next talkboard election is going to be.

I'm sure that if he wanted/cared to weigh in on the subject, he'd have done it by now (in this thread).

------------------
Saving the world, one clue at a time.

The above is the official designation for this Forum. It was 5 minutes ago anyway.

We can all read in Town Hall that the TalkBoard voted for themselves to be GAGGED from making any public comment on TB matters and decisions. (And most of them still respect that motion's decision.) So a majority of TalkBoard members clearly are very comfortable with that concept or they'd simply hold another vote on it and overturn it - correct?

So, accepting that the majority of TB members are very comfy that they cannot or should not post TB matters here, that leaves the Forum participants as only Randy and the FlyerTalk members who are not Talk Board members - correct?

Otherwise, WHY does this Forum exist?? So by extension EVERY post here is directed at Randy for response, as it seems by their vote the TB members are officially unable to directly reply to the many simple and sensible questions often raised.

Isn't this thread purely "Discussion of TalkBoard issues"???

Like Rudi I also have no issue whatever with Randy on this. He was visionary and game enough to try the TalkBoard experiment. It seems from posts from many wise heads to have failed or to be not necessary at all. There can be no "attacking his leadership" or a "stealth attack" on Randy if he is openly and politely asked questions here by ANYONE. It was why this Forum was created.

For any TalkBoard member to post that kind of silly comment disturbs me greatly to read, much less from two TB members. It appears to be aimed at stifling further comment here? Randy in my experience always INVITES and enjoys factual and balanced suggestions made to him. Surely that is WHY he set up this very Forum? If I am wrong on either count, I am sure you will read about it here from him very soon. His business - and Flyertalk would not be where they are if he did not listen and learn ... and always adapt to changing times when needed. That 'time' for TalkBoard has come many appear to feel.

Any post I make is in keeping with the precise reason this Forum exists. Things are changed FAST on Flyertalk IF the stimulus is there from someone for the change to be made. Nothing happens by magic. I emailed Dan Fearman a whole bunch of new additions to the FT Terms Glossary twwo days back, and they were in place and uploaded within 24 hours. Fast and efficient.

If the TalkBoard members have not generated the stimulus to have Town Hall updated they apparently are entirely comfortable with it being totally outdated. There can be NO other interpretation, I am sorry. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. If elections were not to be held in late September, WHO from TalkBoard suggested Dan remove the clearly outdated data?

It is pretty rich when FT members point in innocence to the FEW specific things about election dates (the subject of this thread remember) that ARE posted on Town Hall and TB members then splutter that 'those are all wrong' etc. We are not mind readers here. It is surely THEIR job as a group to keep the publicly visible info updated by submitting the amended wording/dates where applicable to the applicable staffer? Right now it is like the Federal Public Service answer ... 'always someone else's fault'.

All of this gets a little away from what just restarted this thread, and that was:


[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 10-10-2002).]

Randy did answer my initial question here on this board - Thank you. I am now a 100% convinced Premex' follower (no future need for Talk Board members 'representing' me).

It seems, that I failed to get my other questions answered (in a, for me, satisfying way) by the TalkBoard, or any of it's current members:
* (hfly (appointed)
* wharvey (appointed)
* Spiff (appointed)
* dhammer53
* Tolarian Wind
* cigarman
* chexfan

I will not insist any longer.

Thank you nevertheless for the (mostly unkown to me) work you have done and will do and for trying to answer.

Well this echoes my thoughts too Rudi and I will leave these folks and Randy alone for a couple of weeks to sort out the problem for which my input is not needed.

TalkBoard is clearly broken and cannot/need not be fixed is my view.

I politely asked in August and September continually over 6 weeks here for a simple answer to what (if anything) the TB were doing or deciding or discussing, and was given no meaningful or factual response whatever by any of them. Rather sad. Most Federal Gov't Departments answer faster things than that.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000075.html

Wow! I think that the last year in the travel industry has just been one of staying alive. Is this forum broken? It sure has been helpfull to me.

I think they are saying Talk Board is broken, not FT itself?

Goodness gracious me, is that the time? I always love Novembers.

------------------
~ Glen ~ Calling all United 1K Members - please join .. www.1Kflyers.com

Wharvey, and I tend to be different voters. But, I can't agree with his post above any more, if I had written it.
Oz you need to take a chill pill. You might "remember" that before you again acuse the Talkboard of not working... That Board, got YOU unbanned for life. Might I suggest you not bite the hand that feeds you. Let's stop bumping this thread. Randy has seen it, the Talkboard has seen it, and all of the FT community has seen it. So far you have less than 10 supporters of "it's broken", verses the thousnds of posters here in our community. You lost, give it a rest okay? Randy will post a vote when he is less busy. Not everything in life is sinister. He is just super busy with the travel industry meltdown. Now can we just talk travel?

Here Here.

Cigarman I respectfully disagree with virtually everything you typed, and one part of it is not factual at all IMO, and I sincerely doubt has Randy's approval to be here. However (unless Talk Board has passed a secret motion to the contrary) that is still our right on FT, to express our opinions and sign our names to them as you just did.

I strangely have not noticed the alleged "thousnds (sic) of posters here in our community" posting here that they feel all is well with TB. There is indeed just ONE (1) person on this thread who is not on TB who has posted thus in the 2 months of this thread's existence. If you feel that one (1) comment is a mandate of approval or ringing endorsement of what has being going on for a year, you are entitled to your opinion as always. (But IMO you are smoking something else other than Cohibas if that is your honest view. )

I have however noticed the overwhelming number posts in this Forum (from many, many, times more than "10" members and indeed including the MANY fine folks who have resigned from TalkBoard over time) DO indicate there is in their view a problem with the concept.

I was also not aware TalkBoard Presidents now decided who "lost" or who "won" any threads. (And as an idle aside I did not start this thread.) Yet another secret motion I was unaware of it seems that was passed? I had the (mistaken?) feeling this Forum called "TalkBoard Issues: 2001/2002" was placed here to allow members to express their opinions or ask questions??? The Forums to "talk travel" are found elsewhere on FT.

If your post was made as President of TalkBoard as seems clear, and if that is the best and most balanced and informative response that can be offered after 2 or 3 months of questions from FT Members, I sincerely thank you for the time and effort you spent forming and typing your answer. And from it, my opinion hardens even more.

TalkBoard was simply an interesting experiment that failed.

I agree again, as others have, with PremEx comments in this Forum .... from less than a month back, and even before the recent TB resignations:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ozstamps:

TalkBoard was simply an interesting experiment that failed.

I have to disagree Oz. While TB hasn't been as active recently as some would have liked it to be; TB helped to move Flyertalk into a new direction. Originally TB was a buzz with activity. We tackled some tough issues ie GLBT.
Some resigned from TB, some stayed.

Maybe if TB was a 6 month project, we would have all said, GREAT JOB. Unfortunately TB is an ongoing work in progress. That said, there's not much work out there.

TB has served a purpose, in spite of what some say.

As for you constantly bringing this thread back up front; it serves no purpose.

As we say in Brooklyn, enough is enough already. Check your ego at the door.

And as the boss (Randy) says, "Let's get back to the topic of talking miles and points."

Dan
Talk Board member