kellio33

I end up in Vegas a couple times of year and always check out the gaming forum to see what is new. While I don't post there, and am not an expert, I certainly appreciate the effort all the others have put into the forum.

FindAWay

My suggestion is don't close the forum.

As someone who has posted 21 times in that forum (and read it far more often), I think it offers more value than some of the others posting in this thread and I find it far more useful than many other fora on FT and would like it to remain as a complete, separate forum.

How many views (rather than posts since views relate more to traffic than posts) has the forum received this year in comparison to other specialty fora?

Is iDine/Rewards Network next (already?) on the chopping block?

The TR DIAD info (not LAS-specific) is an often-gamed aspect of of one of these programs. IMO, folks overlook gaming these programs because they are more opaque than Airline & Hotel loyalty programs. However, they are often very easy to manipulate and to extract great benefit through strategic play - I've gamed TR's comp program for free rooms in New Orleans (Sheraton), Cleveland (Ritz Carlton, no less), Atlantic City, and Las Vegas (10+ times for the latter). To be perfectly frank, I've received far more value per time invested in learning the techniques of gaming casino loyalty programs than in learning the techniques to maximizing earning and redemptions of WN RR.

kellio33

I'd like your post FindAWay, however TB, or it's immediate followers, feels that FT cannot handle a like button. In any event, I'm in complete agreement with you.

iluv2fly

Keep it open.

As a Caesar's 7* and mlife Platinum (and former Noir), I find it useful. I check out the forum almost on a daily basis.

I have gained some important info from it. I really don't want that hidden in other forums. Just because it doesn't get the mega traffic as other forums do is no reason to close it. I can certainly find some other forms that get little traffic and there's no impetus to close them. Does it cost anything to keep it open?

Please don't close it.

baccarat_king

Then just create a metric for keeping forums open. Apply that metric to all forums, and then you do not have to have these discussions.

If the metric for a forum being open is x posts a month/year, and a forum does to meet that equation close it.

This would solve the issue of having the "discuss" opening or closing forums. If you open a new forum, and it does not live up to the required metric within x years, close it.

My personal opinion, is that FlyerTalk is first and foremost about Travel Loyalty Programs and the optimization of those programs. (earn points, use points) Casinos have large points based loyalty programs much the same as hotels, car rentals, and airlines.

I do not personally track the size of specific programs but back in 2007 Total Rewards (Caesars Entertainment) had around 40 million members. Of that, I believe around 10 million are active in some form. They spend money or gamble, and by doing this they earn points. Similar to how you spend money at a hotel and earn points or fly and earn points (either by distance or money spent). This is just one example of one casino loyalty program.

baccarat_king

What's the Travel News forum? (no, seriously... I do not think I have ever visited it... ok, I'll go look for it now...)

I believe that is true. Since the "comp discussions" were considered "off topic." But, this is quite a while ago, and from memory.

Actually that is not true at all. It's just a different market, and the incentives to share are not there.

With regard to gaming programs, people are happy to share information on status matching, completing a "Diamond Challenge," gaming day and theoretical.

Most people will not share mistakes or advantageous plays; because there is much more at "risk" than just giving away a mileage run and someone booking a bunch of trips to earn miles/status.

Casino mistakes/good plays, can be worth $200-$4000 per HOUR. That's real money. Not miles+points. If you notice something like this, you could be talking about shutting down an additional opportunity for major income for yourself or your "team," if shared too openly. There is little to no incentive to share such things, unless you are getting similar information in return.

This is part of the reason a forum like Gaming Loyalty is more of a general database and benchmark for these programs. It will never be like Mileage Run. Casino "deals" (and "mistakes") are held much more closely. But, there is still a lot to be learned in a general sense for the new or recreational gambler.

mikeef

Gaming programs are very gameable, in some cases, moreso than airline programs.

I don't use this forum often, but when I do use it, I have a very specific need and usually find the answer here. I'd like to keep it open.

Mike

tcook052

Yes, that the way it's supposed to be if TB followed its own guidelines adopted in this motion however for whatever reason it seems unwilling to do so hence the suggestions on an ad hoc basis.

kokonutz

Well I ask the question because, yes, there are many 'moribund' forums on flyertalk depending on your metrics and benchmarks.

But I think every single flyertalker has a 'moribund' forum that they are passionate about. You and cblaisd with Travel News, for example (which is not just moribund but redundant). baccarat_king with the Gaming Loyalty forum. Me with the External Resources forum.

And while it's awfully tempting to try to apply metrics and benchmarks to that question, ultimately that may be the wrong way to judge whether a forum should exist or not.

But, as SkiAdcock suggests, let's take this discussion to a thread where that question will be on topic.

As for gaming, casino loyalty programs are closer to FlyerTalk's original mission (discussing loyalty programs) than many, many others. I am fine with it being here.

Canarsie

Based on the input of fellow FlyerTalk members — the most important criterion, in my opinion, as they are whom I represent as a member of TalkBoard — my inclination is to leave the forum alone.

cblaisd

Thousands of page views is hardly "moribund."

But glad you've come around to my point of view:

Some forums add classiness to FT -- the Religious Travel forum is an asset because there are few other places where respectful flame-free discussion can happen. Some forums need to exist because without them there is simply a nonsensical hole in the classification system -- Antarctica or the U.S. destination forum (an information retrieval system whose taxonomy leaves out major classifications is not helpful to newbies and others -- and information is FT's primary purpose).

So, you're right: one blunt instrument quantitative metric simply isn't very helpful.

After seeing the discussion above, so am I. It has a core of dedicated followers who share useful information (the purpose of FT) and indeed ties in, as you point out, with FT's mission.

nsx

This thread certainly has educated me. Thanks for all the member perspective on gaming programs!

That motion, which I wrote, does not specify that TalkBoard is to produce a report giving thumbs up or thumbs down on every forum. It merely requires TalkBoard to obtain and look at the metrics. The purpose of this provision was to get the data. Up to that point, nobody had the data.

It turned out that the site software has no capability to generate the metrics. So I figured out a simple way to compute metrics that anyone can do. I posted the spreadsheet and the method. The data is public, not limited to TalkBoard. I continue to generate this data every year since nobody else has picked up the task.

Should all TalkBoard members have to certify that they have carefully reviewed the activity numbers? You will never get six votes for that: We can't even get TalkBoard members to read every word of every motion, let alone hundreds of numbers. We all have busy lives. But I assure you that I saw every number as I looked for anomalies indicating data entry error before delivering the data to TalkBoard and posting it here.

tcook052

The linked forum activity spreadsheet doesn't support that claim and would suggest you compare the Travel News forum activity with the Gaming Loyalty program traffic.

No, not a up or thumbs down on every forum only

to identify those

If all of TB can't be bothered conducting a review then perhaps the wording should be changed to merely say that year end numbers will be compiled and reported with no requirement of further action.

kokonutz

Metrics without benchmarks are meaningless. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...l#post25020203

MSPeconomist

Personally, I don't see any point in trying to formalize benchmarks. We could spend a lot of time debating them but ultimately the decision of whether to close particular forums is a judgment call about whether doing so would be good or bad for FT, which depends partially on whether the forum serves a unique need, whether it has a group of enthusiastic participants, etc.

Speaking only for myself, my SOP to these issues is to look at the metrics when they become available and identify any fora that I believe deserve a closer examination based just on the numbers. Then I spend a bit of time looking at any fora that I've identified from the metrics plus any others that I suspect should be given some attention in this process. I informally divide my list into three rough groups: (a) no problems, should not be closed, (b) weak maybe, consisting of those fora that I might support being examined further but where I find that the available evidence at this time does not warrant my suggesting further examination, and (c) strong maybe, namely those fora (if any) that I would like to propose be examined further or where I would (strongly) support a suggestion by someone else that the forum be examined further. It's a combination of data and subjective impressions, but I'm not willing to formalize the process further, even for myself, because I don't consider going through lots of analysis here to be the best use of my time.