Voting Ended - Motion Failed: "Formalizing a Friendly Amendment process"
Apr 6, 2015 | 11:26 am
#256
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I think TalkBoard should be more concerned about user engagement than with transparency. The number of people who vote in the TalkBoard elections is tiny, and the number who post here is even smaller. I suggest this is because most active FlyerTalk users simply do not see that TalkBoard's decisions are important to their experience with the site.
Engagement and transparency are not mutually exclusive, but threads like this one are unflattering, and I believe this further undermines the board's reputation. In your collective place I would want to keep deliberations private. Use this public forum to solicit public input: ask questions, read answers, seek clarifications, but do not vent. Use your private forum for discussions.
Engagement and transparency are not mutually exclusive, but threads like this one are unflattering, and I believe this further undermines the board's reputation. In your collective place I would want to keep deliberations private. Use this public forum to solicit public input: ask questions, read answers, seek clarifications, but do not vent. Use your private forum for discussions.
And, I'll say that, to a certain extent, TB can't drive engagement at all. Folks who want to participate will. Offering others all the opportunties in the world to engage won't make it so. If that makes TB irrelevant, so be it. Maybe it's time to disband the Board?
Last edited by dchristiva; Apr 6, 2015 at 11:45 am
Apr 6, 2015 | 11:44 am
#257
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I think TalkBoard should be more concerned about user engagement than with transparency. The number of people who vote in the TalkBoard elections is tiny, and the number who post here is even smaller. I suggest this is because most active FlyerTalk users simply do not see that TalkBoard's decisions are important to their experience with the site.
Engagement and transparency are not mutually exclusive, but threads like this one are unflattering, and I believe this further undermines the board's reputation. In your collective place I would want to keep deliberations private. Use this public forum to solicit public input: ask questions, read answers, seek clarifications, but do not vent. Use your private forum for discussions.
Engagement and transparency are not mutually exclusive, but threads like this one are unflattering, and I believe this further undermines the board's reputation. In your collective place I would want to keep deliberations private. Use this public forum to solicit public input: ask questions, read answers, seek clarifications, but do not vent. Use your private forum for discussions.
Apr 6, 2015 | 12:13 pm
#258
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It's not that I "don't remember there being outrage." I checked the public thread on it. Two people, neither of them TB members, asked for an explanation. Two. As compared to the angst from TB members over this one. It should've been a serious issue then too.
People are busy, and sometimes, things come up. At least MSP was honest about the missed vote. She could've crafted some elaborate story, and who would've questioned it?
People are busy, and sometimes, things come up. At least MSP was honest about the missed vote. She could've crafted some elaborate story, and who would've questioned it?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ing-forum.html
I made a mistake, I owned it, knew I could change nothing about what had occurred, and life continued on. There were no personal attacks as I recall. The TB President and I communicated on the issue, I posted an apology in both the public and private forums.
Apr 6, 2015 | 1:01 pm
#259
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I don't really have any thoughts about the topic other than that it was a good motion and would of been helpful. Sometimes, there's a small mistake that could of been changed or a typo that wasn't noticed until after it was motioned. If the TB members and the yes voters agree to the minor change, then what's wrong with that?
Apr 6, 2015 | 2:01 pm
#260
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I agree with Kipper. So far as I can see it's a black and white issue - either it is acceptable for TB members (who are in a position to vote) to miss votes or it isn't. The same rule should apply to all TB members all the time.
Apr 6, 2015 | 2:24 pm
#261
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But it's obviously unacceptable, it's codified in our written rules that this is an offense that can lead to censure and removal. The fact that there was no outrage last time is not grounds for ignoring it this time.
Apr 6, 2015 | 2:34 pm
#262
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Per the TalkBoard Guidelines, a TB member would need to miss 3 consecutive votes without notice.
While it is frustrating and annoying to others when someone does not vote without prior notice in the appropriate TB forum thread, missing one vote is not grounds for dismissing someone.
When it happens, I think it's understandable some are going to be frustrated it occurred, especially when it impacts the outcome one way or another. I'd surmise this is partly why the reaction this time has been far greater than when I did so in December 2013.
Apr 6, 2015 | 3:05 pm
#263
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Exactly! Saying that missing a vote is missing a vote, regardless of the circumstances, is like saying that there's no difference between great white sharks and guppies. Both are fish, right? Yeah, but most people would see quite a lot of difference.
Similarly, speeding is illegal regardless of the circumstances, but nearly everybody regards speeding on a empty road in the middle of nowhere quite differently from speeding on a busy city street filled with pedestrians. Speeding is speeding, except when it's not.
Missing a vote when the tally is 8-0 is radically different from missing a vote when the tally is 5-3. Anybody who can't understand the difference has intentionally put blinders on. I won't do that.
Bruce
Similarly, speeding is illegal regardless of the circumstances, but nearly everybody regards speeding on a empty road in the middle of nowhere quite differently from speeding on a busy city street filled with pedestrians. Speeding is speeding, except when it's not.
Missing a vote when the tally is 8-0 is radically different from missing a vote when the tally is 5-3. Anybody who can't understand the difference has intentionally put blinders on. I won't do that.
Bruce
Apr 6, 2015 | 4:01 pm
#264
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We could avoid wasting everyone's time if MSPeconomist would simply tell us how she feels about the original motion on which she failed to vote. I would feel like an idiot if I resubmitted the motion for another vote, and it lost. If that's going to happen, she should let us know now and save us all the trouble of finding out the hard way.
If she still isn't sure, then I give up.
Bruce
If she still isn't sure, then I give up.
Bruce
Well, I did respond in the public thread after missing that vote. It's the last post in the thread.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ing-forum.html
I made a mistake, I owned it, knew I could change nothing about what had occurred, and life continued on. There were no personal attacks as I recall. The TB President and I communicated on the issue, I posted an apology in both the public and private forums.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ing-forum.html
I made a mistake, I owned it, knew I could change nothing about what had occurred, and life continued on. There were no personal attacks as I recall. The TB President and I communicated on the issue, I posted an apology in both the public and private forums.
Apr 6, 2015 | 4:07 pm
#265
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Bruce
Apr 6, 2015 | 4:14 pm
#266
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Um, have you seen the track record here? Voting "quickly" has not been the habit. Maybe this will be the time, though, so let's go for it!
Apr 6, 2015 | 4:24 pm
#267
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Could be. Could also be that this reaction is an extension of the personality conflict we've seen played out on these pages in past months.
Apr 6, 2015 | 6:30 pm
#268
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She could just state how she would have voted had she voted before falling asleep.
But she didn't in her apology and hasn't since.
I take that to mean she would have voted no or abstain. So the matter is closed.
Unless, you know, MSPeconomist wants to finally publicly take a position on this question.
Yeeeeeeeaaaaaahhhhhhhh.........
Apr 6, 2015 | 9:27 pm
#269
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It could be.
Apr 6, 2015 | 9:39 pm
#270
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Can I possibly be any clearer? One person can tell us what to do, but she remains silent. I'm not going to even contemplate revoting until we hear from her. The rest of TalkBoard would impeach me -- and rightfully so!!! (I might impeach myself first.)
Bruce