dchristiva

I guess this is directed my way. I wrote it before and I'll write it again: I have no regrets about my comments, publicly or privately. I don't understand why anyone has an issue with that, nor do I plan to change. I want to know what people think, for better or for worse. I find the world a much better place when I know right where I stand with people and where they stand with me. My criticism doesn't mean that I can't work with others, but I prefer that they know what I feel about their actions. And vice versa.

I'm not afraid to share what I think. Not at all. Particularly when someone fails in his or her TB duties. People ran for this on a volunteer basis. If one doesn't want to fulfill the job description, resign and let someone else step in.

I'm also fascinated by the casualness with which folks seem to treat the responsibility of being on TB. I just don't understand how it's acceptable to put off a vote for 13 1/2 days and then sleep through the decision. Yeah, great. There was honesty and transparency in the announcement. But there was also failure to perform one's duty. Members elected the TB. Speaking for myself, I think I owe them a little more than "I fell asleep".

I'm happy to accept the apology, but I'll never suggest there shouldn't be consequences. I'm happy to forgive and move on and try to work together. But part of that "work" is voting on these motions in a timely fashion. I think this is a two way street, so I'm looking for a little more than "I'm sorry."

bdschobel

My comment wasn't directed at you or anybody in particular. And I don't object at all to anything you have posted. My point was simply that, after part of a debate surfaces, the rest can't be far behind.

Bruce

nsx

That's usually true.

I've noticed in other forums, a food fight ends when one party is willing to let the other party or parties have the last word, and not before.

kipper

Where was this outrage when someone else missed a vote though? That's my issue with the angst over this. There was minimal outrage when someone else missed a vote, and granted, the motion was going to pass anyway, but that was failure to perform one's duty too, and there were all of 2 people, neither of them TB members, who posted, wanting an explanation.

bdschobel

Yes, "...granted, the motion was going to pass anyway...." That's hardly an insignificant fact. In that earlier instance, the member forgot to vote, but her vote did not affect the outcome. So the level of outrage was, shall we say, muted.

In this case, the missed vote was pivotal, critically important. It still is! If we only knew how MSPeconomist would have voted, had she not fallen asleep, then we would know if the motion was going to pass or not. That would tell me, at least, whether to simply resubmit the motion for a revote.

If I see another person ask why there is outrage this time and not last time a vote was missed, I'll respond by simply quoting this post. That's efficient.

Bruce

CMK10

Do you really think that just because you don't remember there being outrage the last time someone missed a vote that that's a reason there shouldn't be outrage this time? This is a specifically enumerated requirement of a Talkboard member making it a serious issue.

kokonutz

Last word!

dchristiva

I don't know. I wasn't part of TB then, as far as I recall. My comments only reflect my own views and experience.

kipper

It's not that I "don't remember there being outrage." I checked the public thread on it. Two people, neither of them TB members, asked for an explanation. Two. As compared to the angst from TB members over this one. It should've been a serious issue then too.

People are busy, and sometimes, things come up. At least MSP was honest about the missed vote. She could've crafted some elaborate story, and who would've questioned it?

bdschobel

But that earlier missed vote did not affect the outcome. Did you not see my previous response to you?

Bruce

wharvey

Unless I am missing something, there is NOTHING stopping this motion from being resubmitted - no need to wait to know how a non-voter would have voted. Since everyone has had plenty of time to mull the issue, I would guess that nine votes could be cast pretty quickly before someone "forgets" to vote.

Stop the bickering, resubmit the motion... and accept the outcome... or accept the outcome of the last vote and move on.

bdschobel

We could avoid wasting everyone's time if MSPeconomist would simply tell us how she feels about the original motion on which she failed to vote. I would feel like an idiot if I resubmitted the motion for another vote, and it lost. If that's going to happen, she should let us know now and save us all the trouble of finding out the hard way.

If she still isn't sure, then I give up.

Bruce

mia

I think TalkBoard should be more concerned about user engagement than with transparency. The number of people who vote in the TalkBoard elections is tiny, and the number who post here is even smaller. I suggest this is because most active FlyerTalk users simply do not see that TalkBoard's decisions are important to their experience with the site.

Engagement and transparency are not mutually exclusive, but threads like this one are unflattering, and I believe this further undermines the board's reputation. In your collective place I would want to keep deliberations private. Use this public forum to solicit public input: ask questions, read answers, seek clarifications, but do not vent. Use your private forum for discussions.

bdschobel

As I said earlier, my starting point is exactly as you described. But once parts of the private discussion start to leak into the public forum, the rest is sure to follow, in all its glory (or not). I don't know any way to prevent that.

Bruce

chgoeditor

My bylaws work is primarily in the non-profit sector, but I get the impression that it's relatively common to have a rule that essentially says, "the secretary (or another board member) is authorized to make changes that harmonize the existing bylaws with the newly passed bylaws" and "the secretary is authorized to correct typos and non-substantive grammatical mistakes in the bylaws, but must notify the board and membership within a certain time period." The first bit allows the secretary to change references that might have been overlooked when initially drafting an amendment/bylaws change.