bdschobel

Very good ideas!!! Thank you.

Bruce

Jenbel

Does it really matter? Does anyone (except a few TB wonks ) really care about TB or know what it is? TB members claim to represent the members, but so few members are engaged with TB these days, that the only views which are garnered from from a small core of interested members who are in no way representative of the current experience of FT members.

dchristiva

Can you elaborate? My observation is that the folks who chime in on this and other topics seem pretty connected with FT AND TB (or representatives). How do you think your current experience may differ from others' FT experience?

I ask this in all seriousness, as I would like to understand if I am misinterpreting the feedback TB is getting on this and other issues.

kokonutz

That's what this proposal does.

Currently the rules say that when a motion is made and seconded a vote is opened in the private TB forum THEN the VP asks Carol to do a site-wide announcement.

This proposal says that a motion is made and seconded, then the VP asks Carol to put up a site-wide announcement. ONCE SHE DOES, (after a potential period of time...48 hours in this proposal) THEN a vote is opened in the private TB forum.

tcook052

That however does not necessarily mean those opinions reflect the majority of FTers as was seen to some degree most recently in the creation of the Premium Fare Deals forum and subsequent thread asking for it to be closed. That's why it's well worth at least trying to encourage opinions from beyond this forum from all members regardless of whether many or few actually may avail themselves of the opportunity.

SkiAdcock

It should be noted that the input post the premium fares forum being created was not all negative, which you seem to be implying. There were/are as many people supportive as against.

And in that thread one of the people posting said he had never noticed a sitewide announcement, even though there were 48 of them during my 4-year tenure, and another said he noticed them but didn't come to TB because he didn't really care about the other ones. That's probably not going to change no matter what TB does.

koko's proposal is a good compromise between current method & going overboard in a response to the premium fares forum. Hopefully he'll make it a formal motion/get a second soon, although he may decide to wait until after the holidays since FTers/TB members will be traveling.

Cheers.

tcook052

Yes but it was more even than in the original forum creation debate and my point to the TB member was simply not to rely too heavily on the small sample size of members who post in the TB Topic forum as they may not always match those of the wider membership.

dchristiva

I don't share that concern. My observation is that the majority of TB members (if not all) take their time with the matters at hand. In fact, even if one or two are guilty of "snap" voting, that shouldn't move the needle.

I said it was my observation. No need to be snarky. I never said it wasn't worth trying to encourage opinions from beyond this forum, but, I have to say, if folks don't post their opinions here, it can be difficult to figure out what FT members really want. How do you suggest we solve for that?

Again, I ask in all seriousness. I could wait a day, a week, or a month, but if folks don't present their feelings, it's not like I can go out and solicit opinions at the local firehouse.

Canarsie

We have also discussed in the private forum using communication vehicles such as the TalkMail newsletter as much as possible — tied in with a site-wide announcement — to get the word out in order to alert as many FlyerTalk members as possible and give them a chance to offer input on issues being considered by the TalkBoard.

tcook052

I wasn't so no need to get defensive.

Well ensuring site-wide announcements are placed is a start and this wasn't done at least once this year. There are other ways however TB could try to reach more members to make them aware of both the TB and current motions and Canarsie has suggested some.

dchristiva

Awfully hard to tell on an IBB.

Nevertheless, I'll try to take folks' opinions into account, but I think there are enough safety measures in place that snap judgments shouldn't change the course of FT history.

bdschobel

In my view, a "snap judgment" by TalkBoard is practically impossible. By the time an issue reaches the motion stage, let alone voting, months or even years of discussion have already transpired. We should not pretend that discussion begins only after a site-wide announcement has been made -- and nothing at all happened before then. That's ridiculous.

Bruce

Kiwi Flyer

Perhaps I misinterpreted the draft. I read it as saying voting is at least 48 hours after a request is made to have a site-wide announcement. If the intent is that it is 48 hours after a site-wide announcement is posted then this could be worded clearer and more explicit.

tcook052

No it really isn't but if you should feel it is report it to a forum moderator. Members who voice their concerns to TB don't IMHO deserve to be told their input is snark.

OverThereTooMuch

I wonder how many of us delete this spam as soon as it hits our inboxes?

I think using sitewide announcements is sufficient.

I'd like to see a delay of at least 3 days after the proposal is made and before voting starts. Rarely is there a need to rush into any decision here, because we aren't discussing things that truly matter in the grand scope of things.

Hard to find a good balance though. If you leave it open too long, you'll see the same arguments getting hashed out over and over in the discussion thread, with lots of words being typed, but no productive discussion actually happening. We already have OMNI:PR for posts like that The back and forth bickering by a couple of people that clearly will not be changing their minds will get in the way of other users trying to voice their opinions or get their questions answered. We'd need the forum mods to step in and make sure these types of discussions don't dominate a given thread (i.e. more actively police the threads related to current votes, vs. waiting for RBP alerts).