Suggestions for TalkBoard voting process - announcements and stand-down period
Dec 18, 2014, 1:41 pm
#76
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
Posts: 58,626
I think 72 hours would be better. To expect a bunch of people who travel a lot to respond within 48 hours doesn't seem to allow them much time to reflect before posting about proposed motions. We'd rather get carefully considered detailed feedback than quick instant reactions.
Dec 18, 2014, 1:56 pm
#77
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,417
Is there some old age or other condition that allows people to remember for two days but not three? <insert grinning smiley here>
Dec 18, 2014, 2:06 pm
#78
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
Posts: 58,626
If both the President and Vice President "forget", I'm sure at least one of the other seven members of TB will remind them. I suspect that the person who put forward the motion won't forget, nor will the person who seconded (at least it if they weren't racing to second something just to get their name on a motion rather than because they were genuinely enthusiastic about the proposal).
Is there some old age or other condition that allows people to remember for two days but not three? <insert grinning smiley here>
Is there some old age or other condition that allows people to remember for two days but not three? <insert grinning smiley here>
But some (like moi) have suggested that there be NO 'mandatory discussion period,' but rather that TB members use their own discretion in terms of how long to wait to vote so long as the site-wide announcement has been made before voting.
Others want 3 days.
I was trying to split the baby down the middle, erring toward the side of mandatory waiting.
Dec 18, 2014, 2:25 pm
#79
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Programs: Delta DM-3MM United Gold-MM Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 13,498
Waiting for the announcement before voting seems reasonable to me. Waiting even longer does not.
It's worth noting -- again -- that most TalkBoard issues (nearly all, actually) have long histories and have been discussed at great length for months or even years. The notion that lots of new information is going to appear suddenly after the FT-wide announcement is wishful thinking.
It's also worth noting that, even in the context of this thread, not a single TalkBoard member has stated that he or she would have voted differently if voting had been delayed. That says something, too.
Bruce
It's worth noting -- again -- that most TalkBoard issues (nearly all, actually) have long histories and have been discussed at great length for months or even years. The notion that lots of new information is going to appear suddenly after the FT-wide announcement is wishful thinking.
It's also worth noting that, even in the context of this thread, not a single TalkBoard member has stated that he or she would have voted differently if voting had been delayed. That says something, too.
Bruce
Dec 18, 2014, 3:15 pm
#80
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,451
So if there's no new information on most topics and nobody changes their mind why even go through the motions of soliciting member input through a site-wide announcement?
Dec 18, 2014, 3:19 pm
#81
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,417
Dec 18, 2014, 3:52 pm
#82
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Programs: Delta DM-3MM United Gold-MM Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 13,498
Bruce
Dec 18, 2014, 5:53 pm
#83
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Durham, NC (RDU/GSO/CLT)
Programs: AA EXP/MM, DL GM, UA Platinum, HH DIA, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Platinum, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 33,857
I don't know how many times I have to say this: Nobody thinks this way. Our votes come only after there is both a public and a private discussion. In fact, almost every vote I've participated in I've voted the opposite of my first thoughts on the matter. And I was persuaded by people's posts in the forum.
Dec 18, 2014, 8:32 pm
#84
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,451
I like koko's amendments and hope TB adopts them as building in a 48 hour delay in start of TB balloting is not an overly lengthy delay to ensure the opportunity to provide feedback is extended beyond this forum.
Last edited by tcook052; Dec 18, 2014 at 8:38 pm
Dec 19, 2014, 7:15 am
#85
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,114
Not really.
But some (like moi) have suggested that there be NO 'mandatory discussion period,' but rather that TB members use their own discretion in terms of how long to wait to vote so long as the site-wide announcement has been made before voting.
Others want 3 days.
I was trying to split the baby down the middle, erring toward the side of mandatory waiting.
But some (like moi) have suggested that there be NO 'mandatory discussion period,' but rather that TB members use their own discretion in terms of how long to wait to vote so long as the site-wide announcement has been made before voting.
Others want 3 days.
I was trying to split the baby down the middle, erring toward the side of mandatory waiting.
Waiting for the announcement before voting seems reasonable to me. Waiting even longer does not.
It's worth noting -- again -- that most TalkBoard issues (nearly all, actually) have long histories and have been discussed at great length for months or even years. The notion that lots of new information is going to appear suddenly after the FT-wide announcement is wishful thinking.
It's also worth noting that, even in the context of this thread, not a single TalkBoard member has stated that he or she would have voted differently if voting had been delayed. That says something, too.
Bruce
Sometimes sitewide announcements do bring new input by FTers, more so on hot button items (but then again, hot button issues don't normally get decided quickly), but often even with sitewide announcements not many come to TB to provide input on the motion being voted.
Heck, on the premium fare thread someone said they didn't notice any of the 48 sitewide announcements that had gone up previously so they didn't come to TB, and another said he noticed them but didn't really come over to TB because they weren't votes he cared about.
So while TB hopes that FTers will provide additional input & it's definitely appreciated, sometimes TB has to go with the input already provided in the threads that led up to the motion itself. Motions are never done in a vacuum.
And speaking only for myself, I thought then & still think creating the premium fares forum was the right thing to do, which is why I voted yes.
Cheers.
Dec 19, 2014, 9:47 am
#86
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
Posts: 58,626
Jeez, when I first got on TB I was the REBEL! The BOMB THROWER! The INSURGENT!
Now I'm the compromiser.
Getting old sucks.
Now I'm the compromiser.
Getting old sucks.
Dec 19, 2014, 10:16 am
#87
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,114
Dec 19, 2014, 2:18 pm
#88
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Formerly HPN, but then DCA and IAD for a while, and now back to HPN!
Programs: Honestly, I've been out of the travel game so long that I'm not even sure. Maybe Marriott Gold?
Posts: 10,677
Then we can happily disagree as inviting members to share their input via site-wide announcement when a majority decision could be reached within hours of said notice appearing is barely better than voting without any announcement at all. And yes, I know that 'snap voting' may not happen all the time however if nothing is done to try and prevent it definitely could occur again.
I like koko's amendments and hope TB adopts them as building in a 48 hour delay in start of TB balloting is not an overly lengthy delay to ensure the opportunity to provide feedback is extended beyond this forum.
I like koko's amendments and hope TB adopts them as building in a 48 hour delay in start of TB balloting is not an overly lengthy delay to ensure the opportunity to provide feedback is extended beyond this forum.
Dec 19, 2014, 2:48 pm
#89
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,451
'Snap' voting has happened 3 of 4 total motions this year so it definitely has happened though that's no guarantee the trend would be repeated going forward. It is however enough of a concern that these policy proposals are being discussed in this thread.
Dec 20, 2014, 3:47 am
#90
Moderator, Hilton Honors
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: on a short leash
Programs: some
Posts: 71,422
Thinking about making this motion today:
The TalkBoard recommends the following amendments to the TalkBoard Guidelines:
C. Voting Procedures
i. Once a motion has been made and seconded and all aspects of the Public Notice Procedures in Section D. below have been completed, not sooner than 48 hours later the President shall post a sticky poll thread in the TalkBoard forum calling the question and announcing the vote. The thread shall be titled "Vote: [summary of motion]". In the first post on the sticky poll thread the President shall post the maker and seconder of the motion as well as the voting deadline and then restate the motion that has been made and seconded.
and
D. Public Notice Procedures
i. Once a motion has been made and secondedput before TalkBoard for a vote the Vice President/Secretary shall post a new thread in the public TalkBoard Topics forum announcing the vote along with the voting end date as quickly as feasible. Once that thread is posted, the TalkBoard Vice President/Secretary will submit a request to the FlyerTalk Host or representative to create an site-wide announcement of the vote with a link to the discussion/voting thread in the TalkBoard Topics Forum. The Announcement will be available until either voting is completed and a decision is made or the voting period ends.
The TalkBoard recommends the following amendments to the TalkBoard Guidelines:
C. Voting Procedures
i. Once a motion has been made and seconded and all aspects of the Public Notice Procedures in Section D. below have been completed, not sooner than 48 hours later the President shall post a sticky poll thread in the TalkBoard forum calling the question and announcing the vote. The thread shall be titled "Vote: [summary of motion]". In the first post on the sticky poll thread the President shall post the maker and seconder of the motion as well as the voting deadline and then restate the motion that has been made and seconded.
and
D. Public Notice Procedures
i. Once a motion has been made and seconded
Wouldn't it be better to tie the voting to when the sitewide announcement is made? This ensures that FTers in general have an opportunity to input without relying on them reading this forum. Then a shorter stand-down period could be used, say 24 hours after the sitewide announcement is posted. Heck the announcement could even include the end time for the stand down as a prompt for interested people to quickly make their opinions known by posting in the thread in this forum.