Calchas

+1

And I was against it in the first place!

in2it54

Ignore the desires of FTers ??????
Without bringing up the "instant notice" aspect, what impact are you actually feeling ? (and again, gosh knows why instant notice was so important).

I don't even have to get my shoes off, the count the number of vociferous FTers weeping about the loss of the Premium Deals thread.

SkiAdcock

I remember that (as I did read all the discussion threads). That made more impact on me as both a FTer and as a TB member.

FWIW - I'm a bit surprised that the biggest proponent of the new forum & who articulated his reasoning (found in link below) hasn't posted. While he is now a new mod of the forum, he's still allowed to post as a regular FTer (since all of us are FTers first) and he wasn't a mod at the time.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23661444-post34.html

Re: closing down the forum immediately. I posted up thread that short of some major catastrophe (and no, this new forum is not one), it is not the norm for TB to close a new forum a few weeks later. Usually forums come up for review several months later. So while we appreciate some saying continuously do it & do it now, it's not really going to happen.

And for those saying do it now, the way TB guidelines are is that it would require another motion/vote & given the unhappiness about the quick vote, the new one would stay open longer & my guess is that while the unhappys would post, so would the happys so it's not a slamdunk the vote to close would occur.

The unhappys can make their case to the new TB (which will be seated in the next week or so) and perhaps something will change (although I doubt it, especially given there are as many people for as against the forum. Remember, TB considers both sides).

But here's the part I don't get. The mod of the forum (the one who was most against the new forum), said in the (now closed) happy/sad forum a week or so ago that the forum was here & let's figure out how to make it work & specifically asked for input & FTers who frequent that forum didn't respond to him. . Evidently it was easier to come over here & complain than try to work with the mods to make it work. While some of you are disappointed in us, some of us are equally disappointed in you.

Cheers.

Global321

(removed - beating a dead horse)

SkiAdcock

Well if you're referring to closing the forum, perhaps. But other than one post (which was a good one) I didn't see you offering any other input on how to make the forum better when the mod asked for input in the happy/sad thread. Given he's said he's going to create a new thread for that, again asking for input on how to make things work, perhaps you can contribute there. Note - he'll probably redirect you back to this thread if your input is burn it down. But if you want the new forum to work, then I suggest you contribute there.

Cheers.

Global321

Since you are being so nice and not making this personal, I will repost.

When the new forum was created, there was no input, no adhering to typical FT standards... just a quick vote and new forum. Very convenient this new format now needs to follow the guidelines.

Let me help you get it... There was a forum to get feedback (love it / hate it). The feedback was the majority of users said the new forum was not good. What happened when that feedback was received? The thread was closed.

So now you wonder why suggestions are not flowing to the new place to give feedback? Really?

I am quite sure I did not say if first, but I agree... burn it down!

If the new format is the better solution, it will show itself. If it is not, it will show itself as well. In the meantime, maybe we should let people - myself included - enjoy a little freedom of speech and voice their thoughts without condemnation!

Cheers!

LIH Prem

Too bad TB didn't do that the first time around.

-David

CMK10

Please realize that there are plenty of people who want this forum open (look just one post below yours). So you want us to ignore their desires to cater to yours?

I'm really hoping that this contentious issue will at least spur interest in TalkBoard. Every year there's lower voter turnout and it seems no one is aware of the public forum until after a vote. Maybe this will get people more involved.

Plenty of people advocated for this change when we were discussing it, I had no dog in this fight and made my choice based on very convincing arguments.

Global321

Out of curiosity - and please accept these questions as just questions, not questioning...
Why was this not posted in the premium fares thread when it was proposed?
Why was it not updated in the premium fares thread when it was coming up for a vote?
Why was it not posted in the premium fares thread after the vote it was going to happen?
Why was the new format not parallelled after launch to get the bugs out?

If you ask me what is the biggest objection to what happened it is a lack of transparency before the massive change, followed by a 'we can't change it now so deal with it' attitude after. There is a strong sense among many regular users of the PD thread that this massive change was done in secret by a very organized minority who is now spending a lot of cycles trying to justify the 'secret' move. (Maybe that is not what happened, but, it sure feels like it.)

Had all this 'give us feedback' talk happened BEFORE the massive change, I think you would have gotten very little negative feedback after the fact. Who knows, you may have even decided it was not the right move to make such a sweeping change.

kokonutz

I'm just speculating here but it seems to me that those most upset are those who subscribed to the thread by email rather than visiting FT frequently to look at it.

Taking a broad perspective to FlyerTalk, the PFD mega-thread was an outlier in terms of how FT is structured. Threads do NOT typically function as forums on FT. People generally get their FT by visiting FT, not by reading their email.

As I have repeatedly said, it is regrettable that the vote happened so fast that a site-wide announcement of the vote did not occur before the vote closed. That should not have happened. But then again, if one was only subscribed to that thread and not visiting FT frequently, one would have missed that announcement too. @:-)

Ultimately, though, what occurred was not a conspiracy (and I am not going to insert rolleyes here, although I am sorely tempted). It was a function of consensus being built by earnest, well-intentioned individuals after three years of hearty debate about what structure makes the most sense given the FlyerTalk platform. And it does seem like lots of folks like the new set-up.

I know you are not happy with this decision, and I'm sorry it has been so upsetting to you. I appreciate and respect your passion and tenacity.

That said, if you are aware of good deal fares that could help other FlyerTalkers and purposely not posting them in the forum, well, that's certainly your prerogative. But it does color my view.

Global321

Cannot comment for others, but I visited directly.

See ""Good Deals" in Economy Class - Excellent Fares between certain city pairs - 2014 "

Oh - and where does that sit? Inside the Mileage Run Deals. This was the EXACT format requested for this forum. It was summarily rejected by the mods!! Yes, feedback is well received here

The outlier here is how this change was made.

You are making an assumption that is what was done. Maybe you are right. Maybe you are wrong. You don't know these things to be true. You are better than this!

I think this is the most important transparent fact. The process was wrong. And I think there is another clear statement, albeit unspoken... 'the process was wrong, but we will not correct it".

Who said conspiracy? I will roll my eyes to that comment!

Years of debate... but not ONE WORD in the forum itself.

Not upsetting... that is too strong a word. Like you said, the process was wrong. It could be undone, but, apparently the mods do not feel that is the best thing to do now. I can accept that. What I (and most others I believe) do not accept is double speak and some of the b-s that has been sent out to try and explain what happened. You, on the other hand, have been very direct and honest about what happened and your POV. While (many of) us may not like it, I think we can accept it because you were direct and transparent. (More 'higher ups' should take this approach.)

So props to you, even if we disagree on the outcome. ^

Taking a step back, I hope no one is truly 'upset' at this change. We all have (passionate) opinions about this... but this is a true first world problem. Please keep this in mind before getting upset about anything on FT.

Peace and love. Peace and love.

kokonutz

And, again, props to you for your passion and tenacity. It's that kind of passion and tenacity that has made FT the best damn IBB on the internet for 16 years and running!

I've been on the 'losing' side of many TB decisions/debates. I know how frustrating it can be (although I am still clinging to hope for a Mens Travel Forum). But ultimately FT manages to maintain its amazingly high functionality for sharing flying and traveling information. So in the end, none of us are losers. ^

Oh, and peace and love. Peace. And. Love!

Global321

+1

SkiAdcock

A few thoughts not in any particular order (but please read them all)....

Should a formal heads up have been given in the MR forum? Probably yes, although the TB guidelines don't require it. We've done it more loosely in the past & I've raised the issue in the private TB about formalizing it more for the future.

But here's the one thing I do have a problem with. Yes, we didn't do the 'formal' heads up (although others from the MR forum learned about the discussion in the public forum anyway anyway & did post). But heck no I'm not going to accept that the lack of heads up notice falls totally on TB.

A (at the time) MR mod of the forum who was aware of the discussion in the public TB forum & which way it was trending informed his fellow MR mods of the issue with the following results - none, repeat, none of the other (at the time) MR mods, even though they were aware of the discussion, posted either in the public TB thread at the time of discussion their thoughts or even created their own thread in the MR forum saying hey, heads up this is being discussed & get your butts over to the public TB forum to have your say. Granted they weren't required to do so, just like TB wasn't required to do a formal heads up, but one would think that since they knew of it they would have done at least one of those things.

Re: the vote passing before the sitewide announcement went up. As I mentioned I think this might be only the second time it happened (and the other was really, truly a no-brainer). It is not the norm. In my 4 years on TB & 49 motion votes I can say this was an outlier. Having said that, having a brief period between when the sitewide announcement goes up & voting commences is something TB can consider for the future, and is something that koko, myself & one other TB member have brought up in the private TB forum to be considered moving forward.

I truly believe that the premium fare forum will be an asset to FT, and while I know you (and some others) aren't happy, I also know that other FTers are happy it was created. I truly hope the mods get the guidelines created soon & that if they ask for input re: the guidelines, they'll receive same. I've also contacted IB to get their input on the instant notification issue. I'm not a techie, so I'm deferring to them on that part.

And heck yes, I'm in 100% agreement with you that this is a first world problem & Peace & Love. Here's the thing. We're all lucky enough in our lives to be able to travel, whether it be E/J/F, and we're also lucky that we get to be FTers and have a IBB like that provides so much info & FTers that are willing to help each other so much.

This sounds corny, but I feel truly blessed to have discovered FT & gotten to know so many FTers, both in person & virtually during the past 12 years, and consider so many of them friends. I'm a true believer in pay it forward. I've gained a lot thanks to other FTers & I've helped other FTers. Heck, FT is even mentioned in my annual Christmas letter to friends & family (yeah, I know, but hey I get more of those things with cards now too. It's not just me).

Cheers.

Global321

I read it all. Yup. Corny. Nothing wrong with that.

My comments can all be found above in previous posts.

Peace and love. Peace and love.