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Close the recently created Premium Deals Forum

Close the recently created Premium Deals Forum

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Old Dec 11, 14, 12:44 pm   -   Wikipost
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BACKGROUND TO THIS DISCUSSION: The motion to establish a Premium Fare Deals subforum under the Mileage Run Deals forum was passed 23 October 2014.

The thread discussing TalkBoard's consideration and implementation of the new forum can be read here: Should Premium Fare deals get its own forum?

Extract from the Motion Passed: Creation of a Premium Fare Deals Subforum thread:

Motion Passed: Creation of a Premium Fare Deals subforum

Moved by kokonutz and seconded by jason8612:

"The TalkBoard recommends to the Community Director the creation of a subforum called 'Premium Fare Deals' in the Mileage Run Deals forum."

Forum description:

"Discuss specific premium fare code 'good deals' including fare deals that book into premium economy, business and first class cabins. Once any fare expires, the title should be changed to note '[fare expired]'."

The new forum can be visited here: Premium Fare Deals
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Old Nov 14, 14, 11:45 pm
  #1  
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Close the recently created Premium Deals Forum

At the request of Forum Moderators I will create this new thread.

*This thread has nothing to do with the actual creation of the new forum (or past Talkboard discussions of this topic. This thread is about discussion to close the new forum.*

Per the Forum guidelines:
The following are qualitative criteria that the TalkBoard believes are useful to consider when evaluating proposals to create, close, split, or move forums. Whenever a forum change is discussed on the TalkBoard Topics, the TalkBoard encourages posters to fully address these criteria in addition to any other reasons supporting or opposing the change.

1. Will the forum be (or is it now) beneficial to FlyerTalk?

-The newly created forum does little to improve on the existing structure (established by years of hard work by FT members). The old thread was beneficial because it maximized the "signal" over the "noise". The signal is the actual posting of fares. The noise is everything else associated with the reading/understanding of the posted fares.

2. Will the new forum benefit a relationship with FlyerTalk? E.g., does the forum provide value for FT members, such as a friendly ear highly placed in the company.

-N/A

3. Is FT the best place to discuss this subject?

-Yes, the Premium fares posted here are a great asset to FT and its membership.

4. Is there a passionate following? This is essential in order to provide dedicated expert helpers to get questions answered.


Yes. The actively participating members are highly knowledgeable, passionate, and very willing to help others.

5. Is a critical mass of posts and readers anticipated or existing? We need adequate traffic to keep everyone visiting frequently. One living forum is more valuable than two mostly dead ones.

The old single GDPF (Good Deal Premium Fare) thread was an excellent thread for posting/finding Premium Fares on the MR board.

6. Is this the best place on FlyerTalk for this subject? This is the classification issue. The answer depends primarily on achieving and maintaining critical mass. It also depends on whether or where the discussion might (or does) occur in the absence of the forum.

-Premium Fares do not need an entire forum. The best Premium fares are also MR deals and should not be separated from the existing MR Forum. Most of the discussion that occurs should be going on in the existing airline threads. The GDPT was the place to post good premium deals.

7. For proposals to split a forum, is the split expected to improve the signal to noise ratio? Why?

-N/A

---------------------------------------------

This new forum should be closed. It is not an improvement over the existing structure that was already in place. These ideas have not been requested, but I will propose them because I believe they may actually improve the posting/reading/finding of Premium Fares on Flyertalk:

1.Make the Premium Deals Thread a sticky at the top of the MR forum.
-The thread will not travel down the page and will always be visible.
-It will have a place of prominence for posters and readers of deals.
-Premium fares can/will/are MR-able fares (the best ones certainly have been).
2. Create a new Premium Deal Discussion Thread sticky in the MR discussion forum.
-This will allow for the posting/moving of "noise". Questions/concerns/kudos etc.
-It could be like a "lounge" thread. Allowing general discussion.
3. Re-work/refresh the Wikis of both Premium threads (with input from mods/members etc.)
-This would clarify what belongs and does not belong in each thread.

The biggest issue of the old thread was "noise". The creation of this new forum has only allowed the posting of "noise" to grow uncontrolled. Little has occurred to improve the "signal", which IMO was the most important thing with the old thread.

The creation of a new forum has not been an improvement. I look forward to others comments and considerations. In the next few days, I will personally post links about this thread in the relevant threads/forums, and notify (by PM’s) Talkboard Members/Mods of this discussion (if this is not allowed, please let me know).

Thank you for reading this post.

----------
Later post by me:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23850677-post53.html

Last edited by CokeandTaco; Nov 16, 14 at 12:47 pm Reason: Add link to follow-up posting.
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Old Nov 15, 14, 8:19 am
  #2  
 
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I agree with CokeAndTaco

The old thread provided a single place that one could check once or twice a day for any fares of noteworthy interest. It provided instant notifications of new messages. It allowed for the needed discussion or clarification of questions without getting cluttered (sometimes some clean-up). It minimized duplication of fares. It also made the fares visible to those who cared enough to keep up with the thread without waving red flags that might get fares closed down, and therefore encourage posting interesting fares.

The new forum isn't working.
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Old Nov 15, 14, 8:33 am
  #3  
 
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I disagree. It's a lot easier to find relevant fares--and whether those fares are even still valid--just by looking at thread titles than by having to wade through a massive thread with a bunch of fare rules and replies about other fares. The OP notes that premium deals should be treated like other MR threads. I agree. Other MR fares have their own threads and these should too.
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Old Nov 15, 14, 8:58 am
  #4  
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Originally Posted by merrickdb View Post
I disagree. It's a lot easier to find relevant fares--and whether those fares are even still valid--just by looking at thread titles than by having to wade through a massive thread with a bunch of fare rules and replies about other fares. The OP notes that premium deals should be treated like other MR threads. I agree. Other MR fares have their own threads and these should too.
I agree with merrickdb and would oppose this motion.

My opinion on this has changed recently now that I've seen the new forum at work.
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Old Nov 15, 14, 11:07 am
  #5  
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You've got some chutzpah, I'll give you that. We had a vote based on thorough thought and research and a large amount of support. There is still enough support to keep this forum open. It's also been open less than a month and it has a ton of activity, more than many other forums.

This motion is premature and I will not vote yes on it.
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Old Nov 15, 14, 11:15 am
  #6  
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Originally Posted by CMK10 View Post
You've got some chutzpah, I'll give you that. We had a vote based on thorough thought and research and a large amount of support. There is still enough support to keep this forum open. It's also been open less than a month and it has a ton of activity, more than many other forums.

This motion is premature and I will not vote yes on it.
There's no motion as of yet, and I'm a little concerned that a TalkBoard member would think there was.
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Old Nov 15, 14, 11:27 am
  #7  
 
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Originally Posted by CMK10 View Post
You've got some chutzpah, I'll give you that. We had a vote based on thorough thought and research and a large amount of support. There is still enough support to keep this forum open. It's also been open less than a month and it has a ton of activity, more than many other forums.

This motion is premature and I will not vote yes on it.
To reply to this post and your other one in the discussion thread I will direct you to two previous posts.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23650301-post18.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23732402-post100.html

Your arguments do not hold water.

Shut it down and let an actual discussion take place with input from actual contributors. The creation motion was a joke and everyone knows it.
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Old Nov 15, 14, 11:43 am
  #8  
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While there are those who are apparently unhappy with the Premium Deals forum, there are also those who are pleased with its creation.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premi...on-thread.html

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Old Nov 15, 14, 12:24 pm
  #9  
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only reason not to have a forum is to keep the fares somewhat less 'public'

having the forum makes them much more visible to general public

a number of people who posted in the thread said this in past discussions
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Old Nov 15, 14, 12:24 pm
  #10  
 
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Originally Posted by rwoman View Post
While there are those who are apparently unhappy with the Premium Deals forum, there are also those who are pleased with its creation.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premi...on-thread.html


Another TB member defending the farce. Please go read that thread before patting each other on the back.
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Old Nov 15, 14, 12:26 pm
  #11  
 
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Not everyone is "unhappy". The new Forum should at least be given some time to work out the teething problems.

As a compromise, maybe the GDPF thread could be re-opened (yes, it hasn't actually been closed, but by mod request shouldn't be used for new fares) for also posting new GDP fares for a while. Yes, that means extra work for the mods.

IMO it is way too early to state that the Forum has failed.
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Old Nov 15, 14, 12:31 pm
  #12  
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Originally Posted by skunker View Post
Another TB member defending the farce. Please go read that thread before patting each other on the back.
skunker,

Should I say, "Thanks." for the accusatory tone?

Amazingly, I can read; I made a decision based on the feedback from FTers. Your displeasure with said decision is apparent.

There are many comments in the thread I referenced where FTers are happy about the creation of the forum, just as there are comments from others expressing their displeasure.

For the sake of those who visit this thread (regardless of their opinion), it seemed relevant to point out not everyone is displeased over the new forum.
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Old Nov 15, 14, 12:34 pm
  #13  
 
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Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri View Post
only reason not to have a forum is to keep the fares somewhat less 'public'

having the forum makes them much more visible to general public

a number of people who posted in the thread said this in past discussions
Yes, but a lot of the GDPFs are official sales. Nothing secret about those. But still nice to have them all mentioned in one place.

For the more arcane fares such as the multitude of CMB, CAI runs et. al., a separate "not-so-official-good-deals" thread could be created. Or something along those lines.

But why keep regular BA or LH sales hidden in a mega-thread?
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Old Nov 15, 14, 1:31 pm
  #14  
 
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Originally Posted by rwoman View Post
skunker,

Should I say, "Thanks." for the accusatory tone?

Amazingly, I can read; I made a decision based on the feedback from FTers. Your displeasure with said decision is apparent.

There are many comments in the thread I referenced where FTers are happy about the creation of the forum, just as there are comments from others expressing their displeasure.

For the sake of those who visit this thread (regardless of their opinion), it seemed relevant to point out not everyone is displeased over the new forum.
How often did you visit and contribute to the old premium thread? In review of the creation thread you had two posts, both directing the FT member to answer the 7 questions. Please direct me to the "feedback from FTers" that led you to vote yes while ignoring the multiple years of discussion which couldn't even lead to a motion being presented.
kokonutz knew that if he got the motion presented to TB it would be passed. TB has a VERY high pass/fail ratio with most passing votes being unanimous.
Let an actual discussion take place, as has happened in the past.

As CokeandTaco has stated that this tread should not be about the creation of the forum, I will respect his wishes and move on.

My opinion: close down the forum, let a discussion take place, and if it passes establish the rules.
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Old Nov 15, 14, 1:59 pm
  #15  
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Originally Posted by skunker View Post
How often did you visit and contribute to the old premium thread?
Prior to the issue coming up last month, I spent little time there. Once the issue came up, I took a closer look at the forum/threads in question. Post count (limited or many posts) in a thread do not equal not being aware of what's being discussed.

In review of the creation thread you had two posts, both directing the FT member to answer the 7 questions. Please direct me to the "feedback from FTers" that led you to vote yes while ignoring the multiple years of discussion which couldn't even lead to a motion being presented.
kokonutz knew that if he got the motion presented to TB it would be passed.
I did consider kokonutz's comments, along with 18sas, tcook052, nsx, and others. Even in the older (2012-13) discussion there were those for/against a separate forum.
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