Rules against campaigning prevent TalkBoard from being relevant to most users
Sep 24, 2013, 3:28 pm
#31
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The rational part of me wants to address the member engagement disconnect by loosening the election rules a fraction to allow, for example, one thread per forum maximum to discuss forum specific topics as they relate to past or pending TB votes. That of course still won't prevent those who aren't interested from ignoring even that sticky.
FWIW I wouldn't want to see us relax the electioneering/campaigning rules so much that it disrupts the individual forum for months on end though that's merely MHO.
FWIW I wouldn't want to see us relax the electioneering/campaigning rules so much that it disrupts the individual forum for months on end though that's merely MHO.
1. There isn't a rule that regular FTers/TB candidates can't participate or bump threads re: issues. However, if a TB candidate deliberately bumps threads &/or PMs folk to push their point of view & keeps mentioning they're running for TB in the post/PMs FTers (again, this is generic & not aimed at you) or gets others to do so on their behalf, then it does start to fall into the campaigning side of things.
I wasn't involved in any campaigns for anyone, I was just a single-issue voter last election, and I wasn't allowed to speak on the issue in a forum where it would have the most impact because it was bumped during the election season. And I sent out a very issue-specific PM highlighting the name of every candidate who had expressed support for the idea, and was told that was inappropriate campaigning.
Then you get the attention of the people who care about the issue but couldn't care less about TalkBoard because they don't understand how it impacts them.
Sep 24, 2013, 6:10 pm
#32
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If someone is active in more forums and gets more input from regular users outside of campaign threads, I say it's an advantage, but certainly not an unfair advantage. (Unless it occurs in forums where some of the candidates are masked.) If someone is willing to put in more effort and gets more exposure... how is that unfair?
I hope you aren't suggesting that every candidate frequent every forum on FT at least during the election!
My suggestions, in order to add more to the election season and debate:
- If a question asked of the candidates pertains to a particular forum, post an announcement in that forum.
- All for follow-up questions to be submitted via the Community Director.
That gives everyone who is running equal chance at commenting, and alerts all who use a forum to discussion of it, while allowing them a chance to ask follow-up questions.
Sep 24, 2013, 6:21 pm
#33
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I can't really see what purpose it serves. The arguments in support of TB only seem to talk about the functions it performs, because that's how FT is currently set up - but not why it's better than some other way.
Is there no other way to manage an online forum? Obviously so as other online forums function fine without such a formal management scheme. I'm not a forum junkie but others that I am familiar with are significantly more streamlined. Some of the things that would make FT more useable from a functional perspective aren't even (as I understand it) under TB's control, but are the purview of IB.
But back to the OP, I guess I don't see the harm in highlighting issues that folks are campaigning about in relevant threads. Just my two cents.
Sep 25, 2013, 1:36 am
#34
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I don't think TB has lost its purpose, but I doubt even FT regulars see an urgent need to meddle in the workings of the forum. They come here, read, respond to what concerns them and move on (ie have a life 
). Drawing parallels to daily life is a bit far fetched, as FT doesn't tax you and doesn't promise to deliver anything in return for your fees.
Of course once candidates decide to 'give back' to the FT community by running for TB a number of issues either come up or are made up. I don't think anyone has come up with that swing vote mobilising election theme yet.
). Drawing parallels to daily life is a bit far fetched, as FT doesn't tax you and doesn't promise to deliver anything in return for your fees. Of course once candidates decide to 'give back' to the FT community by running for TB a number of issues either come up or are made up. I don't think anyone has come up with that swing vote mobilising election theme yet.
Sep 25, 2013, 8:25 am
#35
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Before I say anything that's seen as too damning or even self-serving, let me say that I am not running for re-election this year. I've been elected, served my term, and I'm moving on.
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The TalkBoard is just way too hamstrung by the rules and organization of FT. Moderators always have and always will be the managers of FT. For the most part, the Moderator Corps is a closed group where a FTer with loud, occasionally unpopular opinions, is not welcomed. There are exceptions, but most of those have been "on the inside" for a very long time.
The TalkBoard will always seem to me to be this little elected body that rivals the student government group in an elementary school. The election process is cute, drawn out, personality driven, and utterly barely more than meaningless. Hell, the TB isn't even welcome to join with the Moderators when they have their DO to talk about the running of FT -- that's where TB sits in the hierarchy of FT.
I spent years tilting at windmills. When the biggest contribution a group makes has to do with renaming forums, I wonder if maybe Jenbel isn't right. Let Carol pick her focus group and shutter the whole thing.
Sep 25, 2013, 8:35 am
#36
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Sep 25, 2013, 9:27 am
#37
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
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It is my unscientific observation that 99.9% of all FT'ers could care less....and rightfully so IMO....about the inner workings of FlyerTalk. They are here to trade information, maximize miles and points and perhaps socialize with their fellow members. How FT works is beside the point. They just want a seamless, speedy experience.
For those interested in the wonky inner workings of FT, I believe our Community Director has done about as much as practically possible to call attention to the elections and to encourage participation. Any more publicity would likely intrude on the 99.9% "unconcerneds" user experience.
Sep 25, 2013, 9:39 am
#38
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Is there a full moon?
Amen.
They don't care because they don't need to care. There is nothing seriously broken. If there were, then they might need to care -- although more likely they'd go elsewhere. There is a huge and well-organized fount of information. The interface doesn't detract from the information available with cutesy junk. Trolls and disrupters are speedily dealt with. For the most part, newbies are warmly welcomed and helped to get up to speed. The way the information is structured makes sense.
Indeed. And I continue to wonder why some of the really successful and largest bulletin boards have managed to be so successful without a "TalkBoard"....
Well-spoken, Cholula
They are here to trade information, maximize miles and points and perhaps socialize with their fellow members. How FT works is beside the point. They just want a seamless, speedy experience.
For those interested in the wonky inner workings of FT, I believe our Community Director has done about as much as practically possible to call attention to the elections and to encourage participation. Any more publicity would likely intrude on the 99.9% "unconcerneds" user experience.
Well-spoken, Cholula
Sep 25, 2013, 9:48 am
#39
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I'm not sure I'd go quite this far. But unfortunately I'm leaning more on the side of your post than I did 2 years ago.
Before I say anything that's seen as too damning or even self-serving, let me say that I am not running for re-election this year. I've been elected, served my term, and I'm moving on.
--------------------
The TalkBoard is just way too hamstrung by the rules and organization of FT. Moderators always have and always will be the managers of FT. For the most part, the Moderator Corps is a closed group where a FTer with loud, occasionally unpopular opinions, is not welcomed. There are exceptions, but most of those have been "on the inside" for a very long time.
The TalkBoard will always seem to me to be this little elected body that rivals the student government group in an elementary school. The election process is cute, drawn out, personality driven, and utterly barely more than meaningless. Hell, the TB isn't even welcome to join with the Moderators when they have their DO to talk about the running of FT -- that's where TB sits in the hierarchy of FT.
I spent years tilting at windmills. When the biggest contribution a group makes has to do with renaming forums, I wonder if maybe Jenbel isn't right. Let Carol pick her focus group and shutter the whole thing.
Before I say anything that's seen as too damning or even self-serving, let me say that I am not running for re-election this year. I've been elected, served my term, and I'm moving on.
--------------------
The TalkBoard is just way too hamstrung by the rules and organization of FT. Moderators always have and always will be the managers of FT. For the most part, the Moderator Corps is a closed group where a FTer with loud, occasionally unpopular opinions, is not welcomed. There are exceptions, but most of those have been "on the inside" for a very long time.
The TalkBoard will always seem to me to be this little elected body that rivals the student government group in an elementary school. The election process is cute, drawn out, personality driven, and utterly barely more than meaningless. Hell, the TB isn't even welcome to join with the Moderators when they have their DO to talk about the running of FT -- that's where TB sits in the hierarchy of FT.
I spent years tilting at windmills. When the biggest contribution a group makes has to do with renaming forums, I wonder if maybe Jenbel isn't right. Let Carol pick her focus group and shutter the whole thing.
Sep 25, 2013, 9:49 am
#40
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How to Campaign for TB Election...
But apparently there are rules about no discussion of the election in 'regular' threads. Members who tried to bump threads related to the issue and mention there was currently an election on that topic were scolded for campaigning, and IIRC, the thread was locked. This happens to be an issue I was very passionate about, so I PM'd a bunch of the posters on the thread that had expressed support for my views, and I was reprimanded/reported for that by a moderator. (I'm not debating or challenging the moderator actions in either case - I assume they were correctly enforcing whatever policies exist. The story just doesn't make sense without those facts.)
But where is it more appropriate to mention an election than in a thread where people are complaining and upset about an issue that is currently a hot topic in the campaign?
But where is it more appropriate to mention an election than in a thread where people are complaining and upset about an issue that is currently a hot topic in the campaign?
In our TalkBoard Guidelines, things had been spelled out very clearly w/r/t campaigning:
SECTION 3: BOARD ORGANIZATION
A. TalkBoard Members
i. The TalkBoard will consist of 9 voting members, chosen by popular election. The FlyerTalk Host can serve as an ad hoc TalkBoard member at will and may appoint ex officio, non-voting, members to the TalkBoard.
ii. TalkBoard members must be active, registered members of the FlyerTalk community.
B. Election/Selection
i. TalkBoard Members
a. Interested candidates must be able to commit to minimum weekly discussion and voting participation. Candidates shall submit a profile specifying their area of primary interest and involvement in the FlyerTalk community (e.g. which miles/points area is of primary interest), accompanied by a statement describing their reason(s) for choosing to be a candidate.
b. It is the goal and intention of the FlyerTalk Host that on the First of November, the names of the candidates will be announced so that FlyerTalk members will have an opportunity to become acquainted with them; however, the date may be changed at the discretion of the FlyerTalk Host. For a minimum of 2 weeks following the announcement of candidates, FlyerTalk members will vote and FlyerTalk Host will tally results. The new TalkBoard member(s) will be announced within ten days of the end of the vote closure. The terms of these newly elected TalkBoard members will begin within a week of that announcement.
c. Campaigning is restricted to the current year's TalkBoard Election forum and members' signature lines. In order to respect the privacy of all members, campaigning by the TalkBoard candidates may not be done via mass usage of the FlyerTalk Private Message system or via mass-mailed FlyerTalk email campaigns. Any TalkBoard candidate found to be mass-emailing via the FlyerTalk email system or abusing the FlyerTalk Private Message or Social Networking system for the purpose of campaigning will be removed from the ballot by the FlyerTalk Host and will not be eligible to run in that year's TalkBoard elections.
d. TalkBoard members represent the community and are therefore expected to act accordingly and within the guidelines of the FlyerTalk Terms of Service. In order to be eligible to run for TalkBoard, members must be in good standing in the FlyerTalk community. The term “in good standing” is defined here as being a member with posting privileges.
e. TalkBoard members who are subject to the term limit defined in Section 3.D.i shall be ineligible to be candidates in the current year
A. TalkBoard Members
i. The TalkBoard will consist of 9 voting members, chosen by popular election. The FlyerTalk Host can serve as an ad hoc TalkBoard member at will and may appoint ex officio, non-voting, members to the TalkBoard.
ii. TalkBoard members must be active, registered members of the FlyerTalk community.
B. Election/Selection
i. TalkBoard Members
a. Interested candidates must be able to commit to minimum weekly discussion and voting participation. Candidates shall submit a profile specifying their area of primary interest and involvement in the FlyerTalk community (e.g. which miles/points area is of primary interest), accompanied by a statement describing their reason(s) for choosing to be a candidate.
b. It is the goal and intention of the FlyerTalk Host that on the First of November, the names of the candidates will be announced so that FlyerTalk members will have an opportunity to become acquainted with them; however, the date may be changed at the discretion of the FlyerTalk Host. For a minimum of 2 weeks following the announcement of candidates, FlyerTalk members will vote and FlyerTalk Host will tally results. The new TalkBoard member(s) will be announced within ten days of the end of the vote closure. The terms of these newly elected TalkBoard members will begin within a week of that announcement.
c. Campaigning is restricted to the current year's TalkBoard Election forum and members' signature lines. In order to respect the privacy of all members, campaigning by the TalkBoard candidates may not be done via mass usage of the FlyerTalk Private Message system or via mass-mailed FlyerTalk email campaigns. Any TalkBoard candidate found to be mass-emailing via the FlyerTalk email system or abusing the FlyerTalk Private Message or Social Networking system for the purpose of campaigning will be removed from the ballot by the FlyerTalk Host and will not be eligible to run in that year's TalkBoard elections.
d. TalkBoard members represent the community and are therefore expected to act accordingly and within the guidelines of the FlyerTalk Terms of Service. In order to be eligible to run for TalkBoard, members must be in good standing in the FlyerTalk community. The term “in good standing” is defined here as being a member with posting privileges.
e. TalkBoard members who are subject to the term limit defined in Section 3.D.i shall be ineligible to be candidates in the current year
Sep 25, 2013, 2:00 pm
#41
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The TalkBoard is just way too hamstrung by the rules and organization of FT. Moderators always have and always will be the managers of FT. For the most part, the Moderator Corps is a closed group where a FTer with loud, occasionally unpopular opinions, is not welcomed. There are exceptions, but most of those have been "on the inside" for a very long time.
The TalkBoard will always seem to me to be this little elected body that rivals the student government group in an elementary school. The election process is cute, drawn out, personality driven, and utterly barely more than meaningless. Hell, the TB isn't even welcome to join with the Moderators when they have their DO to talk about the running of FT -- that's where TB sits in the hierarchy of FT.
The TalkBoard will always seem to me to be this little elected body that rivals the student government group in an elementary school. The election process is cute, drawn out, personality driven, and utterly barely more than meaningless. Hell, the TB isn't even welcome to join with the Moderators when they have their DO to talk about the running of FT -- that's where TB sits in the hierarchy of FT.
TB is a joke. It has no power to deal with the controlling clique.
Sep 25, 2013, 3:58 pm
#42
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Sep 26, 2013, 10:06 pm
#43
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Some people seem to be somewhat misinformed about Moderators, who they are and what they do.
We are not "managers of FlyerTalk" - Internet Brands has managers tasked with that, and the Community Director is essentially the COO. We are volunteers who adhere to certain specifications and practices as well as the TOS, are held accountable to the Community Director and peer review, and perhaps the reason it appears we have been "on the inside for a very a long time" is most of us have significant time on FT even before we become moderators.
We do not have a "Moderator DO" in the classic sense - DOs are generally social events, and though we do socialize for a couple of hours afterward, we attend an annual training day where we work pretty intensely - much of that is learning new techniques helpful to doing our job, receiving direction and guidance from the Community Director and Internet Brands. If that appears anti-social, be assured many of us also attend DOs when we get the chance - because socializing is not the focus of our annual training days.
The Moderators and the elected members of TalkBoard exercise pretty different roles as members of FlyerTalk. (Ironically, not only do most BBS-type websites not have an analogous body to TalkBoard, many are adding moderators due to some of the apparently expanding number of participants in those sites who feel their anonymity is a ticket to harangue, harass and otherwise disrupt; I am glad FT has both, IMO.)
We are not "managers of FlyerTalk" - Internet Brands has managers tasked with that, and the Community Director is essentially the COO. We are volunteers who adhere to certain specifications and practices as well as the TOS, are held accountable to the Community Director and peer review, and perhaps the reason it appears we have been "on the inside for a very a long time" is most of us have significant time on FT even before we become moderators.
We do not have a "Moderator DO" in the classic sense - DOs are generally social events, and though we do socialize for a couple of hours afterward, we attend an annual training day where we work pretty intensely - much of that is learning new techniques helpful to doing our job, receiving direction and guidance from the Community Director and Internet Brands. If that appears anti-social, be assured many of us also attend DOs when we get the chance - because socializing is not the focus of our annual training days.
The Moderators and the elected members of TalkBoard exercise pretty different roles as members of FlyerTalk. (Ironically, not only do most BBS-type websites not have an analogous body to TalkBoard, many are adding moderators due to some of the apparently expanding number of participants in those sites who feel their anonymity is a ticket to harangue, harass and otherwise disrupt; I am glad FT has both, IMO.)
...
The TalkBoard is just way too hamstrung by the rules and organization of FT. Moderators always have and always will be the managers of FT. For the most part, the Moderator Corps is a closed group where a FTer with loud, occasionally unpopular opinions, is not welcomed. There are exceptions, but most of those have been "on the inside" for a very long time.
The TalkBoard will always seem to me to be this little elected body that rivals the student government group in an elementary school. The election process is cute, drawn out, personality driven, and utterly barely more than meaningless. Hell, the TB isn't even welcome to join with the Moderators when they have their DO to talk about the running of FT -- that's where TB sits in the hierarchy of FT.
I spent years tilting at windmills. When the biggest contribution a group makes has to do with renaming forums, I wonder if maybe Jenbel isn't right. Let Carol pick her focus group and shutter the whole thing.
The TalkBoard is just way too hamstrung by the rules and organization of FT. Moderators always have and always will be the managers of FT. For the most part, the Moderator Corps is a closed group where a FTer with loud, occasionally unpopular opinions, is not welcomed. There are exceptions, but most of those have been "on the inside" for a very long time.
The TalkBoard will always seem to me to be this little elected body that rivals the student government group in an elementary school. The election process is cute, drawn out, personality driven, and utterly barely more than meaningless. Hell, the TB isn't even welcome to join with the Moderators when they have their DO to talk about the running of FT -- that's where TB sits in the hierarchy of FT.
I spent years tilting at windmills. When the biggest contribution a group makes has to do with renaming forums, I wonder if maybe Jenbel isn't right. Let Carol pick her focus group and shutter the whole thing.
Sep 26, 2013, 10:47 pm
#44
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If people on TB are so dispirited about its utility and purpose, then I have to say this thread is pointless, too.
Sep 27, 2013, 12:03 am
#45
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I guess that's why it seemed to me that the only issue that really mattered last year was the issue of logins or minimum posts to see error fares / MR Deals. I don't care so much about naming and creating new forums, but I know a lot of people who are really ticked about overexposure of deals.