danpass

I'm going to go with this for now.

How long did it take TYP to abort take-off? Let's see double that time from Chase to find out if their UR points hold at least the same leverage as Amex MR points.


I don't see it ever really happening though as Amex has a significant financial advantage in that they own the whole system when it comes to charging on their card and they can therefore afford to dish out MR points AND hold the policies in place and therefore the 'purchasing power' of those points can remain constant.

There's really no question that paying an airfare with points will always be 100pts/$1, that there won't suddenly be a change where 50% more points will now be needed for the same ticket (just an example)

karlmitchell

+1
Given the intense coverage by multiple travel bloggers, I'd also be interested in a dedicated board. The travel strategies using Chase cards are quite complex. The number of transfer partners relevant to flyertalk, although less than Amex MR, are growing. Understood that Chase is a US-only company, but so is Southwest Airlines. But beyond all other factors, I'd say that the sheer numbers of people talking about Chase UR suggests that such a board would be well utilized. So, why not?

nsx

IMHO, this is the strongest argument in favor of a UR forum or highlighting UR in some other way.

redtop43

1. I don't believe that program reach is necessarily the right metric. It's posting volume. I think subforums should be an organizational tool, an easy way to find desired information. I think enough people are intersted in UR-specific information that it would be useful to have it all in one place.
2. Comments about implicit value suggest that UR points are more valuable than MR points. If Amex has more transfer partners, perhaps Chase has more desirable transfer partners.
3. Agree that global reach vs. US only is a valid point. But foreign Amex cards tend to be less desirable as points tools, with generally lower bonuses and higher fees. Someone is more likely to want information on a 40-50K Chase signup bonus than a 15K Candian Amex bonus.
4. Chase strategies are more complex and more worthy of dissection.
5. I don't know how many people this affects (it affects me) but USA-based Chase cards are a valid option for Americans with significant spend outside the USA, which Amex generally is not (Plat is the only Amex card with no forex fee).

I'm not dismissing Amex, just addressing the value of a Chase UR subforum.

Speaking personally, two years ago Mrs. Redtop and I each had two Amex's and no UR cards. Now the score is 2-1 in Chase's favor.

100countrygoal

+1 on every count, including the credit card ratio (currently 6-3 in Chase's favor for me). As a data point, at last year's Chicago Seminar, I recall UR's were talked about many more times (5X?) than MR's. Flyers obsessively talk about UR's, and thus FlyerTalk seems to be the logical place to have this forum.

mia

I would like to better understand what members mean by complexity with regards to Ultimate Rewards.

nsx

Moving points to other family members is tricky. Choosing among the transfer partners requires wider knowledge than many members have individually.

For example, how many UR members know that although they can transfer points to Southwest Rapid Rewards, those points do NOT count toward earning a Companion Pass? How many know that 19200 Southwest points can still be converted to an old-style capacity-controlled award by sending the points to AirTran and back? How many know the best value Hyatt redemption options?

An Ultimate Rewards forum will gather all this information and more in one convenient place, so that members can plan their redemptions and then go out and earn the necessary points.

JimLtravels

Ok, so the blogs talk extensively about UR. While they may not have the partners that Amex and Diners have, the buzz is there. Its time to create a separate UR forum. This is CLEARLY a mileage transfer program. Let's get it together. If you read the preceeding comments its clearly overwhelming for a separate forum. What is the issue about doing this? So far the excuses I've read not to create a forum are far from persuasive

nsx

I just started a straw poll of TalkBoard members. We came close to acting on this one last year, and it might happen this year.

chrisj500

That sounds like an excellent possibility!

UR points are much more valuable for travel than MR points.
I'm really surprised AmEX isn't doing more to prevent the poaching.

ma91pmh

Agree a separate sub-forum makes sense

I am somewhat surprised Amex has not stepped up their game, that said the amount of spend they have locked in the bag with big corporate accounts likely dwarfs what Chase has been able to generate with the UR card line up. So maybe they don't need to too much

JimLtravels

Most appreciated. What would the timing of this be?

nsx

The TalkBoard moves slowly. I'll give it 5 days or so for TB members to see the question and comment on it before doing anything on a formal proposal.

mia

FlyerTalk already has a forum to host discussions of Ultimate Rewards, but it is shared with discussions of a half dozen other programs. What is the incremental benefit of separating Ultimate Rewards discussions from the others?

To be sure there is no misunderstanding, I am not asserting that there are no benefits, but I think that if TalkBoard is to create a separate forum for Ultimate Rewards, but not for, say, ThankYou Rewards, the criteria should be clear to the members.

I am somewhat more supportive of the idea of an Ultimate Rewards forum than I was a year ago, in part because Chase has started to become more of a paradox - publishing tough policy changes which are then unevenly implemented, which means we need to track actual experiences. However, I think we should not mistake discussion of card churning for discussion of a program.


In 2011 American Express passed MasterCard to become the second largest credit card transaction network in the USA. I doubt that Chase has seriously eroded their business because Ultimate Rewards is merely another family of cards feeding Chase's existing co-brand partners.

ma91pmh

This thread has been here almost a year now, and everyone except FT "management" thinks it's a good idea, and all I hear from the "crew" is typified in this response which is really just looking for any reason not to create a separate forum. I really do not understand the reluctance to do this.

To answer this question, by that token I would just roll up Amex into that same forum as there is nothing distinctive enough about Amex to differentiate itself these days.

I mean heck there is even a separate forum for Diners Club. Let's get with the times....