Originally Posted by Jenbel

Actually, it gets ridiculous when not enough time is given to getting the wording correct, voting starts, and then someone points out a problem with the wording. I'd rather TB spent time getting it right first than spend time chucking things at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Some of us care about FT, and don't want change for change sakes' - we want change which will improve the experience, not inadvertently make it worse as the implications for a motion were not thought through first.

We've had situations where something has been voted and then had to be reworded because it was cocked up - it isn't pretty.

Originally Posted by bhatnasx

FWIW, 5 days is way to slow. I go on 4-night camping trip & music festivals a couple of times a year...2 weeks is good for multiple reasons, IMHO:

1) Travel Schedules

2) Some TB members, in the past, have been a little too quick to get motions made and seconded without even thinking about them - and some motions have been made & seconded with adequate time for member commentary - 2 weeks allows for this.

3) Not be accused of being slow (because I usually do vote within a week), but is there anything that's that relevant than additional few days is going to make that much of a difference? Really?

Originally Posted by Dovster

The specific thread to which I referred occured in 2005 -- 6 years ago.

I could cite other, later, threads in which the pettiness of some moderators was evident.

In one case, at least two mods came onto the thread to express their disgust at what others had posted. I know that both you and Randy were familiar with this particular thread as you both posted on it.

To be absolutely clear neither one of you was involved in the gossiping and sniping in this thread and, in fact, Randy stopped it.

Still, the very fact that it existed, and the moderators who were the most offensive remained moderators for years afterwards, shows that personal attacks, which were made where 80+ mods could read them, did not result in any action being taken against the mods involved.

That thread, like the one I mentioned earlier, and others which I could cite, demonstrate to me why I believe that even the best moderators would not like to have the warts revealed.

That being said, I do believe that the change to only allowing moderators of a specific forum to see threads involving that forum was a major step towards cleaning up the private forum.

Originally Posted by Jenbel

We've had situations where something has been voted and then had to be reworded because it was cocked up - it isn't pretty.

Originally Posted by SkiAdcock

And yes, the 2 week timeframe DOES take into consideration the fact that TB members have 'real lives' & sometimes FT/TB isn't #1 on their agenda for the day or a few days, or they don't have internet access.

Recently I was off FT for a few days due to work; I know we have another TB member who is off for a few. And even if I have email/internet access, doesn't mean I can spend limited available time on FT. Reading all the threads for input and/or responding can take up quite a bit of time. And yes, there are times when TB members are w/o i-net, whether it be because they're on vacation (and not checking work or FT), or they're somewhere where i-net is not available (such as where I'll be next week & where a dif TB member was this summer).

Originally Posted by obscure2k

That you make these accusations is really offensive. You are a "journalist." If you want to make these claims, please list your sources.

Originally Posted by Dovster

Let's be clear about exactly what that motion was. It was not gossip -- it involved a member (to be exact, a person who was a moderator at the time) who repeatedly made posts in TB Topics threads which resulted in those threads being shut down.

After this happened quite a few times, and the TB Topics moderators at the time did not take disciplinary action against him, but continued to lock otherwise valid threads, I felt that TB should take action in order to keep TB Topics from being basically shut down by this one member.

I suggested that we pass a motion blocking him from participating in TB Topics. As there were enough moderators on TB to stop any such action ("it is not in our purview") it would clearly be impossible to get the motion passed, so it was not made.

Originally Posted by ZenFlyer

Um, all of this happened six years ago?

Originally Posted by Jenbel

You used a private forum to complain and snipe at a member who did not have access to that forum to see what was being written about him and what you were talking about was out of your responsibilty as a TB member, ergo, you were not acting as a TB member when you chose to attack this member in private.

Originally Posted by Jenbel

But then TB has been similarly bad at times, hasn't it Dovster? There was certainly that motion you wanted to make, and indeed which I offered to second, which, had it seen the light of day (and that is why I said I'd second it) would have caused much consternation when the members saw what or indeed who was the subject of conversation on the private forum and how it/they were being discussed.

Since you are busy revealing what you have seen - illicitly - on old threads from TT, perhaps it's also a good idea to delve into the mirkier side of TB, the stuff that some of the TB members wouldn't want revealed to the public? Incidents like that I am talking around above... or the times TB members lied on the public forum about what they had said/done on the private forum and if we tried to enlighten the membership, they used the 'confidentiality' clause to silence us?

I'm very sorry to drag up such ancient history... I consider it in the past and TB has thankfully moved on since then - but I do think that it's only fair to bring this up if you are castigating mods for their behaviour in the past, just to show that neither side has been without sin.

Originally Posted by kokonutz

I think one thing that could make it better is to give all posters read-only access to the TB forum.

I think that should also happen for the private moderator forum.

Originally Posted by essxjay

"Not happening. End of." -- DCI Gene Hunt

For the sake of TB's credibility, it's time to move on.

Originally Posted by Jenbel

Let's concentrate on how we can make the thing work better in the future, rather than pick over old scrawny bones.