kipper

This would be a start, as would the compromise of keeping the old private TB forum limited to just TB for read-only access, and opening a new "private" TB forum where all FT members have read-only access.

RichMSN

I don't understand why the TB should tiptoe around those particular moderators to avoid offending them. After all, they are members first and foremost and we represent them, too. They can feel free to comment here and PM me as they wish, but I'm not going to change how I post or the suggestions I make *just because* they are moderators.

I'll give their viewpoints the exact same weight as I'd give the viewpoints of any other member of FT. @:-)

livious

Ok, but surely there are other channels that don't involve a power grab (not that I agree on that is what is happening). Stonewalling everything might not be the best idea.

The answer may very well be "no". As it stands, I see no need to have a TB if it is just to suggest new fora to the CD. As a poster, I would like to have some sort of body that functions on behalf of the posters to improve FT.

I believe Koko started this thread to suggest ideas on how to de-marginalize TB. Maybe his first ideas won't work, but surely something can come up with something that won't upset a few outspoken moderators. This does not have to be a power grab!

essxjay

I see. Openness for thee but not for me? Thanks for exposing the very acme and pitch of hypocrisy of the original proposal.

livious

Sorry, I should have not made it about certain moderators. It was more a few FT members that happen to be moderators seem to be against the nature of de-marginalizing TB. When it comes to a perceived power struggle, it is hard for me to differentiate if a poster is speaking in their official role or not.

kipper

Huh? What isn't open about allowing all users read-only access to the private TB discussion forum? I'd like to simply open the current TB private forum to read-only access for all posters, but if there's too many reasons not to (personal sniping or insults, etc.), then I'd settle for a new TB private discussion forum, where all posters have read-only access. I'd prefer to have the moderator forum open as well. However, if we're focusing on TB, then let's focus on TB.

Another alternative to this would be to simply close the private TB forum and require all discussions to take place on this forum, where users can post. However, that could get rather difficult to tell if motions had been made and/or seconded, etc.

livious

Would you want the private moderator forum opened? Openness for everyone? I am sure that could be proposed as well...if you are in favor of everyone being open.

If you are not in favor of opening up either fora, ok. I think it is a good idea in order to de-margnialize TB...and it might be one of the few things that is within the purview of TB.

RichMSN

I don't get this. I've read through the entire private TB forum and it's mainly a cure for insomnia and I'd personally have no problem opening it up for all to see. I don't suppose you'd feel the same about the mod forum, or do you?

kokonutz

From my perspective, this is not at all about a power grab. Frankly I find the notion of 'power' in terms of FT management to be a bit silly. Ultimately the only person with power on FT is our Community Director and Internet Brands. I personally have no desire to run this joint. But I do want to help make it better.

So to me it's about doing a critical self-examination of FlyerTalk and seeing if there are things that can be done to improve the FT experience.

You are absolutely correct that I am not trying to force anything down anyone's throat. To continue my string of hoary cliches, rather, I seek a collaborative white board session where we all can think outside the box about how we can make FT's management more efficient and ensure that it is representative of what the posters want.

To my mind that means, among other things:
- making the TB more efficient
- having the volunteer management arms of FT (TB and mods) work more closely together
- creating additional opportunities for formal involvement in the management of FT
- providing more openness to said management.

I'm certainly open to criticisms of these ideas, and and more than open to other ideas (I'm practically begging for them!).

So that's *my* motivation, anyway. If that makes it a 'power grab' in others' minds, I might suggest that has more to do with their perspective than my motivation.

But whatever the case, I won't be distracted. I am focused like a laser beam on thinking about ways to make FT an even better IBB experience.

livious

That is why I voted for you. I do not know if there is a workable solution, but I have the feeling that you will eventually explore all options. FT is good, but a few tweaks could make it great. First up for me would be getting TB a bit more involved (other than opening a new forum).

RichMSN

We're trying. The first step is banning the use of the word "purview."

Dovster

Herein, IMHO, is the entire problem in a nutshell.

Can you believe that we are talking about "power grabs" on an internet bulletin board?

As long, however, as some moderators see what they have as being "power" there will always be problems. That is only natural -- those who have power (or think that they do -- have historically been loath to give it up.

Guess what? Mods don't have real power. At the most, they can make certain that a member posts on MilePoint instead of FlyerTalk. That, IMHO, is not truly power -- just the illusion of it.

I, as I have said repeatedly, think that everyone would be better off if moderation were handled by a few people who depended upon it for their living instead of those who are concerned about their imaginary power.

livious

Át least the username can be changed, but can those tattoos be removed?

RichMSN

My first suggestion is that the next Mod DO/Training session include a joint session with the TB -- a chance for the two groups to collaborate about the future of FT.

Call it whatever you like, but bringing the two groups together for some constructive dialogue seems to be a great first step in working together to make FT an even better place.

Jenbel

I think there are many people who think it would be great to demarginalise TB. But you've identified the problem - for some on here, and the only thing some people seem willing to discuss, is how TB should take more control of moderation. Given how many times TB (and not just the current one) has been told this is not going to happen, to have some continually harken on about it does get sad and frustrating.

So until some on TB can get beyond demarginlising TB=controlling moderation, then I don't see much of a change in approach. If some on/around TB are unable to change, why are you expecting anyone else to?

I've already posted up thread, so I won't repeat myself too much, how TB can set about showing that it is a body able to represent the members and make timely decisions which improve FT. That would be a much better way of moving forward, rather than this tired old talk about how things would only be great if TB takes over the mods. And the longer these discussions go on about TB taking over the mods - i.e. wastes its time on fantasy - the more it marginalises itself, as it looks like a group which is fixated on something we have been told repeatedly will not happen.