Should there be a forum or threads or <insert your idea> for moderation feedback?
#61
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: PDX
Programs: TSA Refusenik charter member
Posts: 15,978
The volume and tenor of the forum was closing in on a day when it could no longer be moderated. There wasn't enough time in the day to do it properly. The choices really were to to shut it down for good or change the structure to accommodate the needs of different types of posters. We choose the bold solution (listening to our members) rather than taking easy way out (cutting and running). Why the need to second guess our judgment, the CD's and IBs at this junction is mystifying.
#62
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: PDX
Programs: TSA Refusenik charter member
Posts: 15,978
We could ask the same of you with respect to what The Posters want. And there's the epistemological conundrum.
If you can't respect mods making inferences to the best conclusion about what's best for their forum(s) then we're back to the underlying issue of unresolved mutual mistrust. Until that's fleshed out the rest of this discussion is pointless.
If you can't respect mods making inferences to the best conclusion about what's best for their forum(s) then we're back to the underlying issue of unresolved mutual mistrust. Until that's fleshed out the rest of this discussion is pointless.
Last edited by essxjay; Dec 8, 2011 at 5:06 pm
#63
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: PDX
Programs: TSA Refusenik charter member
Posts: 15,978
Last edited by essxjay; Dec 8, 2011 at 5:11 pm
#64
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Thanks for the Memories !!!
Posts: 10,656
Thanks for starting this thread Kokonutz. While I don't believe that every forum needs a thread of this nature, there should be at least one thread where discussion can take place about concerns that general members have.
#65
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2000
Programs: DL FO, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 12,003
By the way, this might come as a shock to you but the DL thread we have been referencing to in many of our posts was not started by a moderator. It was started by RobertS975 a longtime member of the board. At the time the DL mods made the decision to keep the thread open even though we could have simply closed it as per the TOS.
Therefore and not to open a Pandora's Box, I submit to you that any FT member could simply start a similar thread on any forum and if that board's moderators feel that it is appropriate they can simply leave it open. This would not require any action by the TB. @:-)
Therefore and not to open a Pandora's Box, I submit to you that any FT member could simply start a similar thread on any forum and if that board's moderators feel that it is appropriate they can simply leave it open. This would not require any action by the TB. @:-)
Likewise mods do not require TB sanction to initiate (or close) discussions of moderation within their own forums, viz. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/omni/...t-discuss.html.
#66
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,617
This version is both innocuous and flexible, IMHO. It could promote valuable feedback for some forums.
#67
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
Posts: 58,585
We could ask the same of you with respect to what The Posters want. And there's the epistemological conundrum.
If you can't respect mods making inferences to the best conclusion about what's best for their forum(s) then we're back to the underlying issue of unresolved mutual mistrust. Until that's fleshed out the rest of this discussion is pointless.
If you can't respect mods making inferences to the best conclusion about what's best for their forum(s) then we're back to the underlying issue of unresolved mutual mistrust. Until that's fleshed out the rest of this discussion is pointless.
Or at least it should be. In koko-world it would be. That's what this proposal is all about.
YMMV.
#68
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: PDX
Programs: TSA Refusenik charter member
Posts: 15,978
#69
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: check swarm
Programs: DL DM & 2MM, SPG/Bonvoid LT Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, $tarbucks Titanium
Posts: 14,401
FWIW, I have floated in the private TalkBoard forum the idea to mandate a non-sticky thread for discussion of moderation policy and practices in the forum excluding any discussion of specific past actions but allowing discussion of hypothetical future actions. The second part of this idea is that each forum's moderators would be allowed (as apparently they already are) to allow discussion of specific past actions to whatever extent and under whatever ground rules the forum's moderators see fit, subject to constraints, if any, set by the Community Director.
This version is both innocuous and flexible, IMHO. It could promote valuable feedback for some forums.
This version is both innocuous and flexible, IMHO. It could promote valuable feedback for some forums.
#70
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
Posts: 58,585
I still have not seen a down-side articulated to giving all (active) forums' posters the opportunity of using a moderation thread.
#72
Moderator: Hyatt Gold Passport & Star Alliance
Join Date: May 1998
Location: London, UK
Programs: UA-1K 3MM/HY- LT Globalist/BA-GGL/GfL
Posts: 12,077
Oy, another conspiracy theory? Really?
I am proposing a recommendation for an amendment to the TOS to be considered by the TB.
As hard as it might be, can we focus on the proposal rather than the personalities (sort of ironic that *I* am the one saying this to some of the *mods* participating here! )!
Again: I have yet to see articulated or demonstrated a down-side to this proposal. What is so 'bad' about allowing posters to have collaborative input on how their favorite forums are managed on a day-to-day basis?
I am proposing a recommendation for an amendment to the TOS to be considered by the TB.
As hard as it might be, can we focus on the proposal rather than the personalities (sort of ironic that *I* am the one saying this to some of the *mods* participating here! )!
Again: I have yet to see articulated or demonstrated a down-side to this proposal. What is so 'bad' about allowing posters to have collaborative input on how their favorite forums are managed on a day-to-day basis?
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
The smashing success was the manner in which the TS/S moderators managed to alienate so many of their users so quickly. And no, there was disciplinary action in regard to me -- I simply took note of the rapidly souring atmosphere (esp. the accumulating body count) and chose to quit posting there. It had reached the point where it was no longer worthy of my contribution.
Travel Underground was created about three weeks later when I was informed that "It is never cool to call out a mod.". In the isolated environment that many FT moderators seem to create for themselves, over time moderation -- and what the moderators want -- becomes an end in itself at the expense of the members. I've seen this happen a number of times over the years in several forums.
The only way this is ever going to be dealt with is to make the moderators answerable to TalkBoard and shine a lot more sunlight into the process. As it is, you have an elected board that is little more than another FT in-crowd. Give TalkBoard some teeth and made the moderators accountable.
#74
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yiron, Israel
Programs: Bates Motel Plat
Posts: 68,919
That does not mean there would be no value to a thread discussing moderation of a particular forum (or, indeed, threads discussing moderation in general).
If Poster A brings up a good point on such a forum, he will most likely be answered with at least one of the following (and perhaps all of them, depending on how many moderators are involved):
1. A respectful response to the point the poster made, either agreeing or disagreeing with him, and outlining the moderator's view of the issue.
2. A snarky response demonstrating that the moderator feels that he is way above any possible disagreement and that the poster is guilty of lese majeste for daring to question and/or disagree with him.
3. No response at all.
Still, by having expressed his own opinion, Poster A will have brought up a point which other members may not have considered. That, in itself, is valuable.
Moreover, the type of response that the moderator makes will reveal a lot about that particular moderator. This, too, is valuable. Indeed, a sufficient number of "I don't give a crap about you" replies from a moderator (or even lack of replies) might make whoever is responsible for moderation -- be it TB, a group of mods, or the CD -- decide that the moderator in question is not an asset to FT and should no longer continue in his positition.
On a different matter which has been raised here, it is not really true that any poster can start such a thread. Yes, it was permitted on the Delta Forum, but might not be on others. In fact, by attempting to start such a thread the poster could well find himself losing his posting rights for having discussed moderation.
#75
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Well stated, Dovster.
Indeed. That goes to show an issue arising from inconsistency of TOS application. Yet the attempted defense of inconsistency in TOS application is based on "personalities". That sort of inconsistency in application encourages creation of ghettos and cliques on FT and personalization of discussions, all of which are a factor in fostering unfriendly environments.
On a different matter which has been raised here, it is not really true that any poster can start such a thread. Yes, it was permitted on the Delta Forum, but might not be on others. In fact, by attempting to start such a thread the poster could well find himself losing his posting rights for having discussed moderation.
Last edited by GUWonder; Dec 9, 2011 at 1:29 am