flamboyant 1

That is indeed good news.

LX miles will either be converted at some kind of rate to LH Miles an More Miles, or they will stay LX Travelclub Miles and it will be possible to use them for LH flights.

Is my assumption correct ? Will one of the two options become reality ?

If yes I will transfer plenty of Amex MR points to LX Travelclub. If someone here has good reasons why I should not do it, please voice them. Many thanks.

Rudi

right now, it looks like:

* the Travelclub program will stay = go on, for at least several years
* Travelclub members can change (and convert their miles to a yet unkonwn rate) into an existing or new miles&more ff-program for a limited time somewhen in 2005, miles&more will also make a status converting offer to former Travelclub status holders
* m&m members can earn miles on LX flights starting at or before the winter time-schedule 2005/06, so will Travelclub members on LH flights
* code-share agreements with non Star-members will continue at least until the start of the winter-flight schedule 2005/06

(my conclusions from personal talks with LH people in Zurich and some swiss staff at their Zurich-Paradeplatz-office)

Frequent_Flyer1

As there is the high chance that STC will be integrated some way in M&M I have compared what they offer for Silver-level-members like me. Here are my conclusions:

* requalification: This is the big advantage of M&M. The status is valid for two years, so you only have to get 35.000 / 50.000 miles once every two years. With STC you had to qualify every year.
* awards / redemption level: I have a mixed feeling about it. On the one hand, some awards are getting cheaper (e.g. C-Class flights to North America) but on the other hand, for some free-flights horrendous amounts of miles are needed (e.g. Intra-European awards, for a same day return you additionally have to pay 10.000 miles!). And you must not forget that earning miles is not as customer-friendly as with STC.
* lounge access: for me, this is the biggest weakness of being Silver at M&M. At STC we could use a lounge at every destination LX served with its own metal. But at M&M this benefit is no longer offered; you are only allowed to use FTL- and Lufthansa's own C-Class lounges. So: Firstly, it is quite complicated with all the different lounge-types. Secondly, you can't use a lounge at every destination (e.g. no lounge in Barcelona, in Tokio, Johannesburg, usw.) However, you are allowed to bring one guest into the lounge.

It all comes down to: a little better benefits with STC but every year a (re)qualification, higher award costs with STC but easier earning of miles // with M&M it is: weaker benefits but better (re)qualification rules, lower award costs but more difficult to accumulate miles.

I have also looked at other *Alliance FF-programs (thanks to BlondeBombers Star Alliance comparison chart and to the respective websites). But at Silver-lever no one offers outstanding privileges. At some programs just lower miles are needed to qualify. However, with two years M&M has quite a good offer concering the duration of the status. There are also differences in earing miles, e.g. United gives 100% miles even with cheapest Y-bookings.

But for Gold-members it can be quite useful to change the program. There are quite big differences there, e.g. with BMI you need only 35.000 miles to requalify (to qualify the first time ca. 51.000 miles) - that's less than needed for STC-Silver. Sadly, only residents of Belgium, France, Netherlands, Great Britian, Ireland and Spain can join the program... My other favourites are Unites Premier and AirCanadas Aeroplan...

I also really wonder what will happen to STC-Gold members after the first years; M&M can't demand 100.000 / 150.000 once every two years - that needs totally different travelling habits than now... Or am I wrong?

drumbo

Hi,
I am new for FT, so I do not understand this take-over
Is it going to be under the name of LH or Swissair will keep the name
Also what will happen with the FF program, just rolled over to M&M?
thanks

airoli

drumbo, welcome to Flyertalk!

You will find it very useful and informative to read through all the pages of this thread and to look into some others here on the Swiss board to answer your questions.

In a nutshell, SWISS (not Swissair..) will remain as a brand name, and nobody really knows yet what will happen to their frequent flyer program. For now, all is just speculation on that issue.

Rudi

LH will get (first step 49,9%) in some years 100% of swiss shares. Reason for the only 49,9% as first step are, that otherwise, if the majority isn't anymore hold by swiss shareholders current swiss flight rights to some countries (including USA and Canada) would expire.

But economic wise swiss immediates is now a profit center of LH, keeping (as long as this is rentable for LH) it's own management (based in Switzerland) and brand.

Regarding the immediate future of swiss ff-program (Travelclub), please read my fomer post (about 4 posts above this one).

drumbo

Thanks Rudi and Airoli

beepee

in the lh newsletter:

Lufthansa and SWISS are Joining Forces

On March 22, the SWISS Board of Directors and the Lufthansa Supervisory Board gave the go-ahead to the business model developed by both companies under which SWISS will be acquired by Lufthansa and integrated into the Lufthansa Group. Ensuring the continued provision of international air services to and from Switzerland and a Zurich Airport hub, retaining the SWISS brand and pooling the resources and strengthening both companies, open up new perspectives and, through the collaboration within the Star Alliance, sustainably raise the customer appeal.

Cornerstones of the new business model:
� SWISS will remain an entity within the Lufthansa corporation,
having its own fleet and crew and using the SWISS brand.
� Zurich will remain home base of SWISS.

Benefits to the customer
� Larger network
� Integration of the Frequent Flyer Programs (however, for the time being, both Frequent Flyer Programs will be branded individually)

More information will be provided in our next newsletter.

f4free

Rudi,

Thank you very much for this extremely helpful post. When I talked to the (a) LH Europe boss (of some sorts, he works in London) on a plane about 8 weeks back, I got the impression from that LXTC would be fully integrated in M&M rather quickly. Of course things could have changed since then, as nothing was public at that time. To me, your post is very convincing, and I personally find it somewhat comforting.

However, since I am changing jobs and will drastically reducing my travel, it might not matter for me any which way. (Since I likely won't requalify for Gold on LX in 05).

The one thing I would like to add is that there definitely is a certain amount of absurdity in the following situation:

Swiss management (meaning Mr Dose) signs an agreement with BA against the advice of other Swiss managers (some closely tied to core customer management). This agreement includes, as a token on the part of LX, integrating LXTC into BAEC and giving BA control over all core customer information. (I fould this incredibely stupid and totally not thought through when I read it first). Some time later, Dose realizes, pressured by other managers and influenced by BA's lack of cooperation regarding LX's possibilities within BAEC, what problems this would cause, tries to renogiates, fails and LX ends up not joining OneWorld.

Now, LX is essentially also (from Rudi's post it seems to a somewhat lesser extent) giving up the valuable core customer marketing data to a main competitor. Main and crucial difference: The competitor now owns LX, so it doesn't matter.

I think LX could have been a successful OneWorld Member if LX hadn't thrown in LXTC at the wrong time, without thinking it through. At least Swiss will survive, and have a strong owner backing the hub in Zurich.

f4free

Beepee, this is inline with what I heard. So, we have an interesting difference between what Swiss management is communicating to the public, their customers and their own staff (I can confirm that all agents I talked to recently at the LX Gold Desk believe something along the lines of what Rudi heard in ZRH) - and what LH is communicating.

My personal opinion, revising my post from some minutes ago, after reading Beepee's post:

We have another example of Swiss misleading their customers through communicating something less shocking than the real situation. I am sure LX management knows that LXTC will cease to exist from, say, the beginning of 06. Later they will say "LH forced us, and they are our new owner."

Another example? Well, take their lie about "the airport authorities enforcing stricter carry-on limits" and "passengers with overweight / too much carry-on bags being sent back at security check-points". LX does not want to take responsiblity for their ridiculousely strict carry-on policy, and blames the airport and the police, which I know for a fact having nothing to do with Swiss' enforcement of carry-on policies.

gorilla

In an interview in "NZZ am Sonntag" of 27 March, Lufthansa CEO Mayrhuber confirmed that LX Travel Club will be integrated into LH M&M and that they will "speedily" come up with a transition concept.

Here comes the original wording in German:

M�ssen die Swiss-Kunden eine Entwertung der Meilen-Guthaben hinnehmen?

Nein. Wir werden schnell mit �bergangsl�sungen kommen. Keiner wird seine alten Meilen verlieren.

chtiet

Nice way of NOT answering the question....

flysurfer

I actually like it, it looks like the first and only opportunity for European AMEX card holders to transfer their Membership Reward points to a *A carrier, even with a 1:1 ratio. So I'm about to become a TC member and will convert my AMEX Reward Points to TravelClub - with the options of either using them for *A awards sometime later or converting the TC miles to MM after the offer is out.

flysurfer

UA MP might be good alternative for many of you TC guys: only 50,000 BIS miles to become *G, plus 100% additional(!) bonus miles (=200%) in ALL coach booking classes on UA metal and LH transatlantic flights (or any other LH flight with a UA codeshare number if you have the nerve to later call the MP service center and have the flight numbers changed after your travel is complete). And award levels are lower for most flights (80,000 for C, 100,000 for F transatlantic).

MM is only attractive to people who travel in paid C (Z,D,C) and F (A,F) most of the time.

flamboyant 1

Just done that. Now I can only wait and see and hope to redeem the points for good Star or just LH awards in the future. A transfer into MM at 1:1 would be great.