May 10, 2018, 7:14 am
Last edit by: Tokyoite
Regardless of the various arguments on whether SPG Golds were ever really "entitled" to Marriott Gold benefits, etc., etc... one thing is clear: SPG Golds will be losing a benefit mid-year, which is guaranteed 4 pm checkout.
It’s been clarified as of today. Starwood Lurker also just posted a clarification here:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29734454-post980.html
It’s been clarified as of today. Starwood Lurker also just posted a clarification here:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29734454-post980.html
Lifetime and Elite Status Updates
Since our announcement last month, we’ve been listening to member feedback and have a few updates and clarifications to share.
LIFETIME
Based on member response, we’re adding more flexibility for Lifetime Platinum Premier qualification. Now, SPG and Rewards members who achieve 750 nights and 10 years of Platinum status by December 31, 2018 will be grandfathered into that Lifetime tier, which starting in 2019 will no longer be available to earn. Rewards members can also qualify under the current criteria (750 nights + 2M points) through year end.
As we shared previously, members can also qualify for all other Lifetime tiers through both the new criteria on an ongoing basis and under the current criteria through December 31, 2018. And remember, we’ll combine lifetime activity across both Rewards and SPG toward qualification when members combine accounts in August.
AUGUST ELITE STATUS
We’ve also received some questions regarding status in the new program for members who status matched to receive elite in both SPG and Rewards. In August, nights earned (vs. linked status) will determine Elite status in the new program. For example, a SPG Gold member (10 stays/25 nights) who status matched to Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) will be mapped to Gold Elite (25 nights) in the new program, whereas a Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) will be mapped to Platinum Elite (50 nights).
The below FAQs hopefully provide even more detail, and have now been added to members.marriott.com. Please be sure to let us know what other questions we can help answer.
Additional FAQs
Can I earn Lifetime status under the legacy requirements (active prior to August 2018) for Lifetime Elite status in Marriott Rewards, Ritz-Carlton Rewards or SPG? If so, when will I be notified of my Lifetime Elite status?
Yes, in addition to earning based on the new criteria, members can earn Lifetime Elite Status under the legacy requirements through the end of 2018. If Lifetime status is achieved by legacy requirements, between August and December 31, 2018 you will receive notice of your updated Lifetime Elite status in January 2019. If Lifetime status is achieved based on the new criteria, you will be notified both in August 2018 as well as any time it is achieved through the end of the year.
Example: An SPG member has 300 Lifetime nights, 4 years of Gold Elite Status, and 1 year of Platinum Elite Status after August, 2018. Under the SPG legacy Lifetime requirements, this member would earn Lifetime Gold Elite status which would reflect in their account January 2019.
If I will not be grandfathered into Lifetime Platinum Premier Elite, will I have the ability to earn into this level in 2018?
Yes, members can earn Lifetime Platinum Premier Elite in 2018 if they achieve 750 Lifetime nights and 10 years at Platinum Elite status. This requirement is only for 2018 and will not be continued in future years. Members will receive notice of this Lifetime achievement in January 2019.
How are years at tenure calculated for Legacy MR and RCR members?
We are keeping members “whole” in the applicable night tier in which they earned their Elite status.
Example: If a member has 4 years of Elite status at the 50 night level (Gold Elite status) they will be counted in August and beyond as 4 years at the new 50 night level (Platinum Elite status). Only the names of the levels are changing. How we account for tenure is not changing.
I already linked my SPG and Rewards accounts. What will happen to my matched elite status in August?
The current status matching opportunity is tier for tier (e.g. Gold gets Gold, Platinum gets Platinum), even though the qualification requirements and benefits between SPG and Rewards are quite different. Given this, the following Elite status mapping will occur in August (unless a member has also qualified by nights for higher status):
SPG Members
· SPG Gold (10 stays/25 nights) is status matched to Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) and in August will be Gold Elite (25 nights)
· SPG Platinum (25 stays/50 nights) is status matched to Rewards Platinum Elite (75 nights) and in August will be Platinum Elite (50 nights)
Rewards Members
· Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) is status matched to SPG Gold (10 stays/25 nights) and in August will be Platinum Elite (50 nights)
· Rewards Platinum Elite (75 nights) is status matched to SPG Platinum (25 stays/50 nights) and in August will be Platinum Premier Elite (75 nights)
Question: Does this mean that SPG Gold who is given the elite status from Amex Plat or an airline program with 0 or less than 5 qualifying nights will get matched to... nothing (ie basic)?...Answer: I'm told "No" –if you have the card and get Gold today…you will be mapped to the NEW Gold tier. So, if you have the AMEX Plat/Centurion card that gives you Gold today…you’ll still get Gold status – just with the newly-defined post August 2018 benefits.
LIFETIME
Based on member response, we’re adding more flexibility for Lifetime Platinum Premier qualification. Now, SPG and Rewards members who achieve 750 nights and 10 years of Platinum status by December 31, 2018 will be grandfathered into that Lifetime tier, which starting in 2019 will no longer be available to earn. Rewards members can also qualify under the current criteria (750 nights + 2M points) through year end.
As we shared previously, members can also qualify for all other Lifetime tiers through both the new criteria on an ongoing basis and under the current criteria through December 31, 2018. And remember, we’ll combine lifetime activity across both Rewards and SPG toward qualification when members combine accounts in August.
AUGUST ELITE STATUS
We’ve also received some questions regarding status in the new program for members who status matched to receive elite in both SPG and Rewards. In August, nights earned (vs. linked status) will determine Elite status in the new program. For example, a SPG Gold member (10 stays/25 nights) who status matched to Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) will be mapped to Gold Elite (25 nights) in the new program, whereas a Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) will be mapped to Platinum Elite (50 nights).
The below FAQs hopefully provide even more detail, and have now been added to members.marriott.com. Please be sure to let us know what other questions we can help answer.
Additional FAQs
Can I earn Lifetime status under the legacy requirements (active prior to August 2018) for Lifetime Elite status in Marriott Rewards, Ritz-Carlton Rewards or SPG? If so, when will I be notified of my Lifetime Elite status?
Yes, in addition to earning based on the new criteria, members can earn Lifetime Elite Status under the legacy requirements through the end of 2018. If Lifetime status is achieved by legacy requirements, between August and December 31, 2018 you will receive notice of your updated Lifetime Elite status in January 2019. If Lifetime status is achieved based on the new criteria, you will be notified both in August 2018 as well as any time it is achieved through the end of the year.
Example: An SPG member has 300 Lifetime nights, 4 years of Gold Elite Status, and 1 year of Platinum Elite Status after August, 2018. Under the SPG legacy Lifetime requirements, this member would earn Lifetime Gold Elite status which would reflect in their account January 2019.
If I will not be grandfathered into Lifetime Platinum Premier Elite, will I have the ability to earn into this level in 2018?
Yes, members can earn Lifetime Platinum Premier Elite in 2018 if they achieve 750 Lifetime nights and 10 years at Platinum Elite status. This requirement is only for 2018 and will not be continued in future years. Members will receive notice of this Lifetime achievement in January 2019.
How are years at tenure calculated for Legacy MR and RCR members?
We are keeping members “whole” in the applicable night tier in which they earned their Elite status.
Example: If a member has 4 years of Elite status at the 50 night level (Gold Elite status) they will be counted in August and beyond as 4 years at the new 50 night level (Platinum Elite status). Only the names of the levels are changing. How we account for tenure is not changing.
I already linked my SPG and Rewards accounts. What will happen to my matched elite status in August?
The current status matching opportunity is tier for tier (e.g. Gold gets Gold, Platinum gets Platinum), even though the qualification requirements and benefits between SPG and Rewards are quite different. Given this, the following Elite status mapping will occur in August (unless a member has also qualified by nights for higher status):
SPG Members
· SPG Gold (10 stays/25 nights) is status matched to Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) and in August will be Gold Elite (25 nights)
· SPG Platinum (25 stays/50 nights) is status matched to Rewards Platinum Elite (75 nights) and in August will be Platinum Elite (50 nights)
Rewards Members
· Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) is status matched to SPG Gold (10 stays/25 nights) and in August will be Platinum Elite (50 nights)
· Rewards Platinum Elite (75 nights) is status matched to SPG Platinum (25 stays/50 nights) and in August will be Platinum Premier Elite (75 nights)
Question: Does this mean that SPG Gold who is given the elite status from Amex Plat or an airline program with 0 or less than 5 qualifying nights will get matched to... nothing (ie basic)?...
SPG Gold today? You will NOT be getting Platinum after August 1st.
Apr 20, 2018, 5:15 pm
#91
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,881
will match to Gold and earned Gold will match to Platinum.- 50 nights
- AXP Plat SPG Gold
- SPG Gold via CC spend
- SPG Gold via stays
- UA elite complementary status
- Gold challenge from a MR Silver (through nights)
- Gold challenge from a MR Silver matched from SPG Preferred
- Ritz CC first year and $10k spend
What else? Maybe there are different mapping rules for each?
Apr 20, 2018, 5:22 pm
#92
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: Aeroplan, Amex AeroPlat
Posts: 977
In order for MR to differentiate between SPG Gold that’s truly earned, and SPG Gold that is less-deserving including Amex Plat, MR system has to integrate with SPG system; OR SPG membership data has to be entirely cleansed and imported to MR without issue, including all columns.
Alas, that is a very difficult job. Any enterprise solution professional can tell you it’s almost impossible to seamlessly integrate two different legacy/ custom systems and data.
Why would MR spend so much time and resources and money to achieve such a level of system integration just to differentiate different types of SPG Gold, assuming SPG actually kept track of all the status history.
Just so selected members would feel fair?
Unlikely.
Apr 20, 2018, 5:32 pm
#93
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Denver, Colorado
Programs: IHG Spire, Hilton Honors Gold, Marriott Titanium, Mileage Plus Gold
Posts: 1,736
Logistically, this would be a nightmare to implement. Naturally, prior to August, MR should know which MR Gold is earned, and which is matched, and presumably, source of match (SPG or another program etc). However, only SPG system would know if their own Gold is earned or otherwise (matched or credit card benefit), assuming SPG keeps track, which is a big assumption.
In order for MR to differentiate between SPG Gold that’s truly earned, and SPG Gold that is less-deserving including Amex Plat, MR system has to integrate with SPG system; OR SPG membership data has to be entirely cleansed and imported to MR without issue, including all columns.
Alas, that is a very difficult job. Any enterprise solution professional can tell you it’s almost impossible to seamlessly integrate two different legacy/ custom systems and data.
Why would MR spend so much time and resources and money to achieve such a level of system integration just to differentiate different types of SPG Gold, assuming SPG actually kept track of all the status history.
Just so selected members would feel fair?
Unlikely.
In order for MR to differentiate between SPG Gold that’s truly earned, and SPG Gold that is less-deserving including Amex Plat, MR system has to integrate with SPG system; OR SPG membership data has to be entirely cleansed and imported to MR without issue, including all columns.
Alas, that is a very difficult job. Any enterprise solution professional can tell you it’s almost impossible to seamlessly integrate two different legacy/ custom systems and data.
Why would MR spend so much time and resources and money to achieve such a level of system integration just to differentiate different types of SPG Gold, assuming SPG actually kept track of all the status history.
Just so selected members would feel fair?
Unlikely.
So in theory they can check:
No matching nights/stays = Gold Plated
Matching nights/stays = Gold
The above check could in theory be accomplished by creating a API for the MR system to read the data on the SPG system.
Apr 20, 2018, 7:39 pm
#94
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London / Los Angeles
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, BA Silver
Posts: 1,631
This is a typical non answer from a CS rep who doesn't know the answer to a specific question so instead answers an easier question. Nobody is questioning that SPG Gold maps to Gold in the new scheme.
I bet if you asked the same rep, "and to be precise, what will my current matched Marriott Gold status map to", they would give you an equally canned response such as "Marriott Gold status will map to Platinum in the new scheme".
I bet if you asked the same rep, "and to be precise, what will my current matched Marriott Gold status map to", they would give you an equally canned response such as "Marriott Gold status will map to Platinum in the new scheme".
Apr 20, 2018, 8:13 pm
#95
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,881
This is a typical non answer from a CS rep who doesn't know the answer to a specific question so instead answers an easier question. Nobody is questioning that SPG Gold maps to Gold in the new scheme.
I bet if you asked the same rep, "and to be precise, what will my current matched Marriott Gold status map to", they would give you an equally canned response such as "Marriott Gold status will map to Platinum in the new scheme".
I bet if you asked the same rep, "and to be precise, what will my current matched Marriott Gold status map to", they would give you an equally canned response such as "Marriott Gold status will map to Platinum in the new scheme".
Apr 21, 2018, 8:32 am
#96
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: WAW
Programs: A3(*G), Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 2,534
You may be right but I thought the question was quite clear. Did you see this post?
I've made the point in earlier posts (and on the MR forum too) that the existence of two separate tables with separate status matchings is likely to be because of the commonality of non-linked accounts among the general public. This gives rise to the 'reasonable interpretation' that posters like TheOtherHolmes referred to.
Anyways, we are just gonna have to sit this out and wait until we get something resembling an authoritative answer, which at this point is most likely to reach us first via the Starwood Lurker.
Apr 21, 2018, 9:28 am
#97
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: Aeroplan, Amex AeroPlat
Posts: 977
Yes, I saw it but for now all we can say is the issue is TBD. The Starwood Lurker himself just posted words to that effect. I wouldn't put much store in whatever answer a minimum wage CS rep on Twitter spits out.
I've made the point in earlier posts (and on the MR forum too) that the existence of two separate tables with separate status matchings is likely to be because of the commonality of non-linked accounts among the general public. This gives rise to the 'reasonable interpretation' that posters like TheOtherHolmes referred to.
Anyways, we are just gonna have to sit this out and wait until we get something resembling an authoritative answer, which at this point is most likely to reach us first via the Starwood Lurker.
I've made the point in earlier posts (and on the MR forum too) that the existence of two separate tables with separate status matchings is likely to be because of the commonality of non-linked accounts among the general public. This gives rise to the 'reasonable interpretation' that posters like TheOtherHolmes referred to.
Anyways, we are just gonna have to sit this out and wait until we get something resembling an authoritative answer, which at this point is most likely to reach us first via the Starwood Lurker.
All these micro-analysis and whatnot. Really, there are people here who would hate to get their “earned” platinum status diluted by those who are perceived as less deserving (e.g. SPG Golds and even worse, “unworthy” SPG Golds via Amex Plat).
It’s only for about half a year anyway! Why not give the SPG golds a fine taste of plat for a bit so they aspire to truly earn the plat status in 2019 and onwards? Marriott, acting with some air of commercial reality, will likely take all MR golds to plat in August.
Apr 21, 2018, 10:31 am
#98
Join Date: May 2002
Programs: AAdvantage Platinum, United Silver, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 2,276
I've come around 180 degrees.
Back on Monday, April 16, I thought that Marriott's publication of separate charts indicated Marriott's intent that the August elite level would be based on the actual elite status earned in Rewards or SPG, not on matched status. This was seemingly confirmed the next day by Marriott's SVP of Global Loyalty, David Flueck, in the YouTube video from The Points Guy (TPG). I thought the charts and the FAQ would be updated quickly.
However, since then, there's just been a series of confusing contradictions. Read this thread.
Marriott has had all week add unambiguous language to their website, one way or the other, to remove all doubt. But nothing has changed.
At this point, a reasonable person would likely conclude that the SPG chart is only for members who have not bothered to link their accounts.
Anyone who has Gold Elite status "today" (which is the word that the tables use) should legitimately be able to rely on the Marriott (or Ritz-Carlton) table to be Platinum Elite from August through the end of 2018 (and probably the first month of 2019).
The status matching that began in 2016 always promoted, "Link your accounts and get your status matched, instantly." It was never about just having the same benefits; it was about getting the corresponding status. Anyone who linked their SPG and Rewards accounts, and logged on to either system, would see that status.
On one hand, it seems unfair to "punish" SPG members whose only "crime" it was to ignore invitations to link accounts (or to create a Rewards account and then to link). On the other hand, it would be even more unfair to "punish" those SPG members who did.
Reality will set in as members must stay enough nights to re-qualify for Platinum Elite.
Back on Monday, April 16, I thought that Marriott's publication of separate charts indicated Marriott's intent that the August elite level would be based on the actual elite status earned in Rewards or SPG, not on matched status. This was seemingly confirmed the next day by Marriott's SVP of Global Loyalty, David Flueck, in the YouTube video from The Points Guy (TPG). I thought the charts and the FAQ would be updated quickly.
However, since then, there's just been a series of confusing contradictions. Read this thread.
Marriott has had all week add unambiguous language to their website, one way or the other, to remove all doubt. But nothing has changed.
At this point, a reasonable person would likely conclude that the SPG chart is only for members who have not bothered to link their accounts.
Anyone who has Gold Elite status "today" (which is the word that the tables use) should legitimately be able to rely on the Marriott (or Ritz-Carlton) table to be Platinum Elite from August through the end of 2018 (and probably the first month of 2019).
The status matching that began in 2016 always promoted, "Link your accounts and get your status matched, instantly." It was never about just having the same benefits; it was about getting the corresponding status. Anyone who linked their SPG and Rewards accounts, and logged on to either system, would see that status.
On one hand, it seems unfair to "punish" SPG members whose only "crime" it was to ignore invitations to link accounts (or to create a Rewards account and then to link). On the other hand, it would be even more unfair to "punish" those SPG members who did.
Reality will set in as members must stay enough nights to re-qualify for Platinum Elite.
Last edited by Horace; Apr 21, 2018 at 4:56 pm
Apr 21, 2018, 11:57 am
#99
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: WAW
Programs: A3(*G), Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 2,534
The status matching that began in 2016 always promoted, "Link your accounts and get your status matched, instantly." It was never about just having having the same benefits; it was about getting the corresponding status. Anyone who linked their SPG and Rewards accounts, and logged on to either system, would see that status.
It's all so ludicrous. Imagine having to be the person whose job is it to explain this once the changeover happens.
The methodology behind account linking was always that your status in one program will mirror your status in the other - with auto-promotion to the higher status across both if there was any discrepancy between the two.
Apr 21, 2018, 3:50 pm
#100
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, Marriott Titanium, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 283
Logistically, this would be a nightmare to implement. Naturally, prior to August, MR should know which MR Gold is earned, and which is matched, and presumably, source of match (SPG or another program etc). However, only SPG system would know if their own Gold is earned or otherwise (matched or credit card benefit), assuming SPG keeps track, which is a big assumption.
In order for MR to differentiate between SPG Gold that’s truly earned, and SPG Gold that is less-deserving including Amex Plat, MR system has to integrate with SPG system; OR SPG membership data has to be entirely cleansed and imported to MR without issue, including all columns.
Alas, that is a very difficult job. Any enterprise solution professional can tell you it’s almost impossible to seamlessly integrate two different legacy/ custom systems and data.
Why would MR spend so much time and resources and money to achieve such a level of system integration just to differentiate different types of SPG Gold, assuming SPG actually kept track of all the status history.
Just so selected members would feel fair?
Unlikely.
In order for MR to differentiate between SPG Gold that’s truly earned, and SPG Gold that is less-deserving including Amex Plat, MR system has to integrate with SPG system; OR SPG membership data has to be entirely cleansed and imported to MR without issue, including all columns.
Alas, that is a very difficult job. Any enterprise solution professional can tell you it’s almost impossible to seamlessly integrate two different legacy/ custom systems and data.
Why would MR spend so much time and resources and money to achieve such a level of system integration just to differentiate different types of SPG Gold, assuming SPG actually kept track of all the status history.
Just so selected members would feel fair?
Unlikely.
Last edited by levistrauss; Apr 21, 2018 at 4:42 pm
Apr 21, 2018, 4:08 pm
#101
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,413
The status linking for matched accounts was always a temporary interim thing until a unified program could be formulated and announced. There was never any promise that the same policies would continue under the new program. In fact, I always viewed it as a special introductory welcome offer to encourage SPG elites to try Marriott hotels (and vv to a lesser extent) during the transition period.
Apr 22, 2018, 6:50 am
#103
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: HOME
Programs: HH Dia;SPG Plat;Marriott Plat;GHA Black
Posts: 335
i think its pretty clear, if you achieve gold in SPG(25 nights), you will be starriott gold and if you achieve gold in marriott (50 nights) then you will be starriott plat.
Anything other than that is just wishfull thinking
Apr 22, 2018, 7:22 am
#104
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: WAW
Programs: A3(*G), Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 2,534
I wouldn't called it a dream. More of a loophole for people to get marriott gold benefit that they 'don't deserve' ��
i think its pretty clear, if you achieve gold in SPG(25 nights), you will be starriott gold and if you achieve gold in marriott (50 nights) then you will be starriott plat.
Anything other than that is just wishfull thinking
i think its pretty clear, if you achieve gold in SPG(25 nights), you will be starriott gold and if you achieve gold in marriott (50 nights) then you will be starriott plat.
Anything other than that is just wishfull thinking
Just to save time: it is FAR from clear... it is TBD, and if you're going to make such statements then at least specify whether you are talking about linked accounts and the time period you are talking about (saying it applies from 2019 says nothing, because everyone already accepts that).
Apr 22, 2018, 8:24 am
#105
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: HOME
Programs: HH Dia;SPG Plat;Marriott Plat;GHA Black
Posts: 335
Oh dear, here we go again. Have you even read the previous posts in the thread or been following the official threads that have covered this subject in great detail? Have you checked the Starwood WIKI to see that the Starwood Lurker himself can't yet give an answer?
Just to save time: it is FAR from clear... it is TBD, and if you're going to make such statements then at least specify whether you are talking about linked accounts and the time period you are talking about (saying it applies from 2019 says nothing, because everyone already accepts that).
Just to save time: it is FAR from clear... it is TBD, and if you're going to make such statements then at least specify whether you are talking about linked accounts and the time period you are talking about (saying it applies from 2019 says nothing, because everyone already accepts that).
because otherwise it will not be fair to people that achieved Marriott Gold (50 nights) to have the same benefit as those SPG Gold.
in fact, it's already not fair today for SPG gold to get the same benefit as Marriott gold, but I see Marriott doing it to entices SPG people to stay at Marriott hotels during transition period.