Sep 22, 2016, 11:20 pm
Last edit by: SkiAdcock
Deal closed Sep 23 - http://news.marriott.com/2016/09/marriott-international-expanded-loyalty-benefits/
FAQ :
http://members.marriott.com/faq/#will-rewards-and-spg-be-turning-into-one-program
Will Rewards and SPG be turning into one program?
These are two of the best programs in the industry, and we want you to benefit from everything that makes SPG and Rewards great. We don’t anticipate that the two programs will come together before 2018, and we will keep you informed of any updates. In the meantime, there’s no change to how you book reservations, manage your accounts or earn Elite night credits, points and miles in the current programs
Status Matches
MR Platinum <--> SPG Platinum
MR Gold <--> SPG Gold
MR Silver <--> SPG Preferred Plus
MR Member <--> SPG Preferred
If your status changes (i.e. Gold->Plat) in one program, your status in the other program will be automatically upgraded within 24 hours per Marriott FAQ
You can now link your Marriott Rewards or Ritz-Carlton Rewards account with your SPG account.
To link your accounts, log in to either account at:
http://www.spg.com/linkmarriott
http://members.marriott.com/
It will be a 3:1 transfer ratio between MR-SPG
If I have Lifetime Status in one of the programs, will I also get it in the other program when I link my accounts?
This is the Official Answer : "We appreciate your loyalty! Lifetime Status is specific to the program that you earned it in. While linking accounts will not result in Lifetime Status in the other program, your Elite status will be matched to the same Elite tier in the other program. Any existing Lifetime Status you already hold within either program will still be enjoyed within that program. We’re working on more ways to recognize your loyalty and Lifetime Status as we work towards harmonizing the programs, which we don’t anticipate happening until 2018."
Transferring points from SPG to MR does NOT change lifetime MR points.
Transferring points from SPG to MR does NOT count as activity & therefore does not extend the expiration date of points.
SPG platinum member matched to MR plat and now interested in the MR - UA Silver status match ? Check here.
Updated Terms and Conditions for the two programs can be found at
http://members.marriott.com/terms-conditions/
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/preferredguest/legal/spg_terms.html
Complete listing of all the hotel brands in the in the merged company :
http://www.marriott.com/marriott-brands.mi#ourbrands
http://www.marriott.com/Images/Brands/brands_page_2016/global_architecture_images/US_MAR_SPG_brand_architecture.png
FAQ :
http://members.marriott.com/faq/#will-rewards-and-spg-be-turning-into-one-program
Will Rewards and SPG be turning into one program?
These are two of the best programs in the industry, and we want you to benefit from everything that makes SPG and Rewards great. We don’t anticipate that the two programs will come together before 2018, and we will keep you informed of any updates. In the meantime, there’s no change to how you book reservations, manage your accounts or earn Elite night credits, points and miles in the current programs
Status Matches
MR Platinum <--> SPG Platinum
MR Gold <--> SPG Gold
MR Silver <--> SPG Preferred Plus
MR Member <--> SPG Preferred
If your status changes (i.e. Gold->Plat) in one program, your status in the other program will be automatically upgraded within 24 hours per Marriott FAQ
You can now link your Marriott Rewards or Ritz-Carlton Rewards account with your SPG account.
To link your accounts, log in to either account at:
http://www.spg.com/linkmarriott
http://members.marriott.com/
It will be a 3:1 transfer ratio between MR-SPG
If I have Lifetime Status in one of the programs, will I also get it in the other program when I link my accounts?
This is the Official Answer : "We appreciate your loyalty! Lifetime Status is specific to the program that you earned it in. While linking accounts will not result in Lifetime Status in the other program, your Elite status will be matched to the same Elite tier in the other program. Any existing Lifetime Status you already hold within either program will still be enjoyed within that program. We’re working on more ways to recognize your loyalty and Lifetime Status as we work towards harmonizing the programs, which we don’t anticipate happening until 2018."
Transferring points from SPG to MR does NOT change lifetime MR points.
Transferring points from SPG to MR does NOT count as activity & therefore does not extend the expiration date of points.
SPG platinum member matched to MR plat and now interested in the MR - UA Silver status match ? Check here.
Updated Terms and Conditions for the two programs can be found at
http://members.marriott.com/terms-conditions/
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/preferredguest/legal/spg_terms.html
Complete listing of all the hotel brands in the in the merged company :
http://www.marriott.com/marriott-brands.mi#ourbrands
http://www.marriott.com/Images/Brands/brands_page_2016/global_architecture_images/US_MAR_SPG_brand_architecture.png
Marriott/Starwood merger closed; FAQs; Status Match; MR & SPG accounts can be linked
Apr 10, 2018, 1:50 am
#1441
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,808
The hotel I referred to in my post upthread is a SPG Cat 3, not a Marriott Cat 2 like Moxy. My point was that even at the $125 per night level, a Plat 75 wouldn't even qualify for Plat under the rumoured new programme.
So for people who travel to and work in Kuala Lumpur, the only way a 75-nighter could qualify for Platinum would be to stay at the St Regis, which incidentally does cost almost US$300 a night. You know what that means? Those people, who currently fill up the rooms at Starwood's eight hotels in KL, will leave in droves. Into whose arms? The Hyatt? Hilton (right next door to Le Meridien)? Mandarin Oriental? The Intercon? We aren't short of choices.
I'm not suggesting that a $$$ based qualification is necessarily bad because there are guests (like you?) who stay less but in more expensive hotels / cities. But there should be an either/or option because the consequences for Starriott of imposing a mandatory $$$-based qualification in places like KL would frankly be catastrophic. I suspect cities like Jakarta would be in the same basket also.
So for people who travel to and work in Kuala Lumpur, the only way a 75-nighter could qualify for Platinum would be to stay at the St Regis, which incidentally does cost almost US$300 a night. You know what that means? Those people, who currently fill up the rooms at Starwood's eight hotels in KL, will leave in droves. Into whose arms? The Hyatt? Hilton (right next door to Le Meridien)? Mandarin Oriental? The Intercon? We aren't short of choices.
I'm not suggesting that a $$$ based qualification is necessarily bad because there are guests (like you?) who stay less but in more expensive hotels / cities. But there should be an either/or option because the consequences for Starriott of imposing a mandatory $$$-based qualification in places like KL would frankly be catastrophic. I suspect cities like Jakarta would be in the same basket also.
$$$ OR stay
with that, frequent traveller who stays at the lower end and higher end of the brands can enjoy the elite tiers
using $$$ only will alienated those who stays at the lower end of the price range ($10k spending on $40 moxy : 250 nights)
on the other hand, using solely night in bed qualification will reduce the incentives for people who like to enjoy the more expensive hotel/rooms.
When I stay at Accor hotel, Im happily book a suite as I know the extra price will be translated into higher status points.
Then when I stay at SPG hotel, I pretty much book their cheapest room that im happy with since my $200-300 extra expenses will not benefit me in anyway in terms of loyalty qualification
Apr 10, 2018, 4:15 am
#1442
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Some
Posts: 5,252
There is some talk further down the MR thread about each tier (not just Plat 100 / Ambassador) being subject to a minimum spend. That would, frankly, be the stupidest and most short-sighted move ever.
To take my situation, I travel a lot for business. Plat 50 for the last two years (Gold for many years before that), and probably Plat 100 this year at my current stay rate. I stay mostly in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. The hotel I frequent there most often, which will remain nameless, is not cheap at all by local standards.
However, because of local market conditions and currency weakness, my eligible spend is only US$125 a night. On 50 nights, I would barely scrape US$6,000, let alone the US$10,000 implied by the scale (half of 100 nights or US$20,000). Even a Plat 75 staying all of their nights at that hotel wouldn't make US$10,000 ($125 x 75 = $9,375). In short, if a proportionate minimum spend was imposed on every tier, current Plat 75s staying at that hotel would get stiffed with "(Fools') Gold". And this is Starwood's second most expensive hotel in the city, in a large stable which includes a St R, Westin, LM, Aloft, two Sheratons, Element and a W coming up!
Effectively, this discriminates against those who live and travel in "cheaper" destinations.
So me staying 75 nights at Starwood's second most expensive KL hotel and still losing my Platinum benefits? I would take my business elsewhere. We don't spend so much of our lives away from family and friends just for kicks, and free breakfast, lounge access and suite upgrades are a few of the things which combine to make it tolerable. To lose them all would be a bitter pill to swallow after so many years of loyalty, and I am sure I am not the only one in this boat.
I know this may not mean much to HQ who are determined to value us on the basis of dollars and cents, but I guarantee you the individual properties would feel it.
PS I know these are all just rumours, but the collective outrage needs to be loud so that the Powers That Be hear our cries. Who knows, they might even decide to do something about it.
To take my situation, I travel a lot for business. Plat 50 for the last two years (Gold for many years before that), and probably Plat 100 this year at my current stay rate. I stay mostly in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. The hotel I frequent there most often, which will remain nameless, is not cheap at all by local standards.
However, because of local market conditions and currency weakness, my eligible spend is only US$125 a night. On 50 nights, I would barely scrape US$6,000, let alone the US$10,000 implied by the scale (half of 100 nights or US$20,000). Even a Plat 75 staying all of their nights at that hotel wouldn't make US$10,000 ($125 x 75 = $9,375). In short, if a proportionate minimum spend was imposed on every tier, current Plat 75s staying at that hotel would get stiffed with "(Fools') Gold". And this is Starwood's second most expensive hotel in the city, in a large stable which includes a St R, Westin, LM, Aloft, two Sheratons, Element and a W coming up!
Effectively, this discriminates against those who live and travel in "cheaper" destinations.
So me staying 75 nights at Starwood's second most expensive KL hotel and still losing my Platinum benefits? I would take my business elsewhere. We don't spend so much of our lives away from family and friends just for kicks, and free breakfast, lounge access and suite upgrades are a few of the things which combine to make it tolerable. To lose them all would be a bitter pill to swallow after so many years of loyalty, and I am sure I am not the only one in this boat.
I know this may not mean much to HQ who are determined to value us on the basis of dollars and cents, but I guarantee you the individual properties would feel it.
PS I know these are all just rumours, but the collective outrage needs to be loud so that the Powers That Be hear our cries. Who knows, they might even decide to do something about it.
Apr 10, 2018, 4:23 am
#1443
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,808
Pretty much any structure for a loyalty scheme 'discriminates' against someone. Arguably basing the scheme on nights alone 'discriminates' against those who stay in expensive locations or often book suites. Having both a nights and a minimum spend requirement is not a terrible compromise, I don't think.
Using Night OR $$$ will cater both groups best
Apr 10, 2018, 4:29 am
#1444
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Some
Posts: 5,252
In principle I would agree, yes. Think the issue with pure spend requirements though is that they are probably quite easy to game by e.g. making a lot of meeting room bookings / making a block booking of rooms for a conference unless the requirements are made quite strict.
Apr 10, 2018, 4:32 am
#1445
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: SG
Programs: Marriott Plat Amb, oneworld Ruby
Posts: 132
Pretty much any structure for a loyalty scheme 'discriminates' against someone. Arguably basing the scheme on nights alone 'discriminates' against those who stay in expensive locations or often book suites. Having both a nights and a minimum spend requirement is not a terrible compromise, I don't think.
An "either / or" qualification suits me fine as I would much rather the transition be more inclusive. But unless I have the wrong end of the stick here, the rumour being discussed is that it will require both minimum nights and monetary spend, and that is the huge concern I have.
Apr 10, 2018, 4:34 am
#1446
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Homeless
Programs: Hyatt Glob; Hilton Dia; Marriott AMB; Accor Dia; IHG Dia Amb; GHA Tit
Posts: 4,838
There is some talk further down the MR thread about each tier (not just Plat 100 / Ambassador) being subject to a minimum spend. That would, frankly, be the stupidest and most short-sighted move ever.
To take my situation, I travel a lot for business. Plat 50 for the last two years (Gold for many years before that), and probably Plat 100 this year at my current stay rate. I stay mostly in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. The hotel I frequent there most often, which will remain nameless, is not cheap at all by local standards.
However, because of local market conditions and currency weakness, my eligible spend is only US$125 a night. On 50 nights, I would barely scrape US$6,000, let alone the US$10,000 implied by the scale (half of 100 nights or US$20,000). Even a Plat 75 staying all of their nights at that hotel wouldn't make US$10,000 ($125 x 75 = $9,375). In short, if a proportionate minimum spend was imposed on every tier, current Plat 75s staying at that hotel would get stiffed with "(Fools') Gold". And this is Starwood's second most expensive hotel in the city, in a large stable which includes a St R, Westin, LM, Aloft, two Sheratons, Element and a W coming up!
Effectively, this discriminates against those who live and travel in "cheaper" destinations.
So me staying 75 nights at Starwood's second most expensive KL hotel and still losing my Platinum benefits? I would take my business elsewhere. We don't spend so much of our lives away from family and friends just for kicks, and free breakfast, lounge access and suite upgrades are a few of the things which combine to make it tolerable. To lose them all would be a bitter pill to swallow after so many years of loyalty, and I am sure I am not the only one in this boat.
I know this may not mean much to HQ who are determined to value us on the basis of dollars and cents, but I guarantee you the individual properties would feel it.
PS I know these are all just rumours, but the collective outrage needs to be loud so that the Powers That Be hear our cries. Who knows, they might even decide to do something about it.
To take my situation, I travel a lot for business. Plat 50 for the last two years (Gold for many years before that), and probably Plat 100 this year at my current stay rate. I stay mostly in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. The hotel I frequent there most often, which will remain nameless, is not cheap at all by local standards.
However, because of local market conditions and currency weakness, my eligible spend is only US$125 a night. On 50 nights, I would barely scrape US$6,000, let alone the US$10,000 implied by the scale (half of 100 nights or US$20,000). Even a Plat 75 staying all of their nights at that hotel wouldn't make US$10,000 ($125 x 75 = $9,375). In short, if a proportionate minimum spend was imposed on every tier, current Plat 75s staying at that hotel would get stiffed with "(Fools') Gold". And this is Starwood's second most expensive hotel in the city, in a large stable which includes a St R, Westin, LM, Aloft, two Sheratons, Element and a W coming up!
Effectively, this discriminates against those who live and travel in "cheaper" destinations.
So me staying 75 nights at Starwood's second most expensive KL hotel and still losing my Platinum benefits? I would take my business elsewhere. We don't spend so much of our lives away from family and friends just for kicks, and free breakfast, lounge access and suite upgrades are a few of the things which combine to make it tolerable. To lose them all would be a bitter pill to swallow after so many years of loyalty, and I am sure I am not the only one in this boat.
I know this may not mean much to HQ who are determined to value us on the basis of dollars and cents, but I guarantee you the individual properties would feel it.
PS I know these are all just rumours, but the collective outrage needs to be loud so that the Powers That Be hear our cries. Who knows, they might even decide to do something about it.
Apr 10, 2018, 5:49 am
#1447
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,413
A bigger problem with the spend requirement is that if it's based on (base or total) points rather than simply eligible spend (as Marriott and Hyatt currently do for their requirements, lifetime status for Marriott is in terms of total lifetime points, while Hyatt uses base points for its alternative to nights and lifetime status requirements), this would really make stays in Marriott brands that earn only half points be almost worthless: Residence, Inn, Towne Place Suites, Fairfield and another brand IIRC, perhaps to be joined by brands such as element, aloft, and 4Pts on the SPG side. With Marriott, not only do room rates only (not F&B, etc.) count for some brands, but there are brands that only earn points at half of the usual rate. It currently can make a huge difference in meeting the Marriott lifetime points requirements for LTG and LTP. The change could also impact annual elite (re)qualification for everyone who stays at certain brands.
Apr 10, 2018, 6:04 am
#1448
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: AC
Posts: 2,167
I find it interesting that the alleged last date for points transfer is April 16th, which is the last day that Aeroplan has the 25% transfer in bonus.
Apr 10, 2018, 6:05 am
#1449
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CT/ Germany - Ich spreche deutsch
Programs: UA 1K, Bonvoy LTTE, HH Dia, HY Expl
Posts: 4,657
As a longtime SPG loyalist and someone that abandoned MR years ago for SPG, the merger naturally has me concerned. I know there are too many rumors out there but hopefully the guessing game will end soon. Sadly I see World of Hyatt piece of crap written all over this! Not sure what Arne thinks will make SPG loyalists happy about what has been leaked already. If airline transfers go away there will be a revolt!
Apr 10, 2018, 6:09 am
#1450
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Miami, FL
Programs: UA 1MM, AA Plat, Marriott LT Titanium, Hyatt Glob, IHG ♢ Amb, Hilton ♢, Hertz Pres
Posts: 6,017
Are you sure? Why make a major change in the middle of this year, when there will be more changes next year with the merger of the programs? The big difference then would seem to be in making both PP and Ambassador published levels, with the renaming of Gold and Plat and implicit devaluation of lifetime status as a result of the renaming.
As for everyone being upset with the $20k required to earn Ambassador, I would also be upset - but thankfully the anticipated program's dollar requirements ONLY apply to the Ambassador tier and, having been Ambassador for many years, find the benefit sorely lacking. No big loss to not be able to attain it. Of course I do worry about dollar creep... where they ultimately put into place a dollar spend requirement for the 75 night level, as I do enjoy those 2 benefits. In fact last year I stopped at 75 nights because I didn't even want an Ambassador any more.
Apr 10, 2018, 6:19 am
#1451
Join Date: May 2003
Location: LCY
Programs: SQ Krisflyer, QR Privilege Club, MB LT Plt (1K+ nights thx MB)
Posts: 1,038
My view is that using base points or any other similar metric that can be regarded as proptional to dollar spent is a very bad metric to measure loyalty over time, i.e as a LT requirement.
The reason for that is that it's inhomogeneous over time, i.e a $ spent at time t means something different at time t+k. In addition to the obvious difference between different geographical markets.
It might make more sense to have a $ spend alt for annual requirements, since within one year the time homogeneous factor is neglible over one calendar year. I say alt since the geographic aspect is still there, however if you want to cater your top tier towards certain core markets for instance it would make sense to put a spending requirement.
The reason for that is that it's inhomogeneous over time, i.e a $ spent at time t means something different at time t+k. In addition to the obvious difference between different geographical markets.
It might make more sense to have a $ spend alt for annual requirements, since within one year the time homogeneous factor is neglible over one calendar year. I say alt since the geographic aspect is still there, however if you want to cater your top tier towards certain core markets for instance it would make sense to put a spending requirement.
Apr 10, 2018, 8:04 am
#1452
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 905
I disagree it is a significant devaluation of lifetime status (at least for SPG members). SPG LT Plats never got access to Your24, extra points or Ambassadors. Those always required annual stays at 75 or 100.
As for everyone being upset with the $20k required to earn Ambassador, I would also be upset - but thankfully the anticipated program's dollar requirements ONLY apply to the Ambassador tier and, having been Ambassador for many years, find the benefit sorely lacking. No big loss to not be able to attain it. Of course I do worry about dollar creep... where they ultimately put into place a dollar spend requirement for the 75 night level, as I do enjoy those 2 benefits. In fact last year I stopped at 75 nights because I didn't even want an Ambassador any more.
As for everyone being upset with the $20k required to earn Ambassador, I would also be upset - but thankfully the anticipated program's dollar requirements ONLY apply to the Ambassador tier and, having been Ambassador for many years, find the benefit sorely lacking. No big loss to not be able to attain it. Of course I do worry about dollar creep... where they ultimately put into place a dollar spend requirement for the 75 night level, as I do enjoy those 2 benefits. In fact last year I stopped at 75 nights because I didn't even want an Ambassador any more.
Somethings gotta give when delivering a new ‘enhanced’ program to members concurrently with lower costs to hotel owners.
Apr 10, 2018, 8:50 am
#1453
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SIN
Programs: TK-G | Accor P | SQ-G | Marriott T
Posts: 3,831
Apr 10, 2018, 8:51 am
#1454
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Homeless
Programs: Hyatt Glob; Hilton Dia; Marriott AMB; Accor Dia; IHG Dia Amb; GHA Tit
Posts: 4,838
Personally I get significant value out of my ambassador, not counting the fact that I am quite sure I get priority over P75 for suite upgrades in several hotels.
Apr 10, 2018, 8:54 am
#1455
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SIN
Programs: TK-G | Accor P | SQ-G | Marriott T
Posts: 3,831
Pretty much any structure for a loyalty scheme 'discriminates' against someone. Arguably basing the scheme on nights alone 'discriminates' against those who stay in expensive locations or often book suites. Having both a nights and a minimum spend requirement is not a terrible compromise, I don't think.