username

I feel that the SPG members are a lot more loyal and the SPG Social Media Team does a great job here, so there is more participation on FT. On top of that, since SPG is the program that is more likely to be affected more, there is more anxiety and speculation. Thus the long thread.

If you look at the UA board, sometimes people still argue CO vs. UA. So, I think we will continue to argue for a while

remymartin

Indeed, I think you nailed it. At this very moment there are:

Starwood FT

• 11 members and 47 guests reading the board
• 29648 threads

MaRiot FT

• 0 members and 40 guests reading the board
• 23093 threads

When you compare the number of SPG vs MR members - 21M vs 54M - this pretty much says it all. MR is uninspiring, vanilla and lukewarm. Members do not feel engaged, unlike SPG members.

supatight80

It's really funny how there's this "spin" going on here that MR loyalists doesn't really care much about the merger.

I distinctly recall a thread on MR created late last year where people especially this particular poster who posts here as if SPG FT is already now part of MR FT, were talking about where they can redeem their MR points at European Starwood properties and if it would be available by this summer.

I don't recall seeing such a thread here on Starwood where we are just dying to try MR properties abroad...

Off topic, but I'm th exact opposite when it comes to redeeming. Vast majority of times I pay at LC, W, StR. Redeem at Cat 2-3-4 properties or transfer points to miles

jjmoore

I'm one of those people that doesn't really care. Starwood properties are not located in the areas I travel the most, unfortunately. The only thing that changes for me is that I will have a few more higher end choices to redeem my points at for my vacations.

Oxon Flyer

Looking at the time of you took this data, I'm not sure this is a representative snapshot, though it does maybe suggest that the Marriott following is more 'domestic' (USA) whereas SPG is more 'global'.

fdem

Agree completely, I am the same paying cash though not adverse to a BRG and sending the points to airlines. The only properties within MR I could be excited about are RC who apparently give no recognition to elites. What I have appreciated for all my years with SPG is the recognition, perks like breakfast and great upgrades though most of my stays are not within US. I was ever only plat 50 (now lifetime) but can count on one hand where I didn't receive a suite upgrade.

supatight80

Completely agree. Looking at the location of posters here on FT and compared to MR, SPG members tend to be more international.

So even with more MR properties, it wouldn't make a difference to us as the vast majority are located in middle America.

But the net effect of this merger, is that us non-US folks would be competing for rooms (redeemed), let alone Suite upgrades at these "few more higher end choices" Starwood properties in places like in Europe.

**directed to this MR poster who posts more here on Starwood than real Starwood elites***

And please don't say there's a lot of MR JW, Autograph choices abroad like in Europe because there's ain't none. And no I'm not willing to settle to stay at a JW in the outskirts (look at JW Venice). So our LC, Design, W, at European vacation properties will be bye-bye for us Starwood Folks

And what are you talking about you don't recall MR folks talking about staying at SPG properties? You were centre stage on that particular thread last year talking about European Starwood LC properties to redeem points with. And another thing, the reason why we talk about not getting a suite upgrade here on FT in non-NA properties is because not getting any is very strange to us. Obviously in MR land, that's the norm hence it's barely even spoken about there. Is there even a thread where properties that don't upgrade in MR FT? And you say you get upgraded to suites so much? That MR upgrade rule hasn't been around for years and years. Just like guaranteed 4PM checkout. They are recent in MR land. And you can thank competition for that change. So spare me the details please with the recycled defense.

But anyways, it is what it is. This merger would benefit the real customers, which are hotel owners. So nothing we can do about that.

JoeWoodstock

It's easy to jump to conclusions that aren't true. Here are some data points that could be influencing the FT behavior of SPG and MR members differently:

1) The merger hasn't been fully approved by regulatory bodies;
2) The merger hasn't happened;
3) The speculation thread in SPG forum is Sticky;
4) The merger info thread in Marriott forum is not sticky.
5) It has been months since any new information about the merger has been released.

It's hard to know if the sky is falling when the clouds keep rolling in,
--woodstock

remymartin

Indeed, which in itself is extremely interesting. However, the thread count is irrelevant of this fact, which means, we're seeing less interest from a larger user Base. Hence my swot analysis.

SkiAdcock

Yes & no. It's day time in both US & Europe right now. Here are #s as I type this:

Chain/Member/Guests

SPG: 18/78
Marriott: 9/69
Hilton: 15/109
Intercontinental: 10/58
Hyatt: 10/51

Other than Hilton seems to be ahead in terms of folk viewing, I'm not sure a 9 person difference really says there's a large delta between SPG & Marriott in terms of people being engaged in their programs/loyalty.

Also Marriott has "Marriott Insiders" (Marriott's version of FT) where people also post, & some post there & not on FT at all.

It's always been interesting to me (and this has nothing to do w/ SPG or Marriott) how many folk viewing forums are guests vs. logged in. I mention it because the topic came up one time for an action item by Talkboard & I reviewed all the major forums to get some #s btwn the two. Some FT members (such as myself) always log in, but there are many other registered FTers who view FT that & don't log in (based on comments in TB) & of course there are the true guests who stumble across FT via google & aren't registered.

Getting back onto actual merger discussion, as Horace mentioned up thread August 9th is the date the merger is expected to be approved by China. My guess is we'll get a press release from both sides saying it's the last hurdle, deal expected to close by end of August, but not really many details on the merger beyond the programs are supposed to merge in the next 2 years. We might get more by year-end.

PS - On a trivia note, looks like travelers are more engaged w/ their airlines than they are w/ their hotel programs:

Chain/Member/Guest

American 64/285
British Airways 148/543
Delta 39/189
Lufthansa 11/70
United 67/235

Cheers.

MSPeconomist

In comparing these numbers, note that the Hilton and Marriott programs are about the same size (in terms of numbers of members and numbers of hotels) while SPG is much smaller and Hyatt is smaller yet. So it's striking that SPG, being perhaps half the size of Marriott, has more participants on FT. Hilton's numbers also look significantly greater compared to Marriott, although of course we should have far more than one date point per program to make these comparisons meaningful.

stimpy

This kind of leapt out at me. The number of members who redeem at those hotels are a tiny fraction compared to those who earn at those properties. On any given day at a moderate sized luxury hotel there are only a few rooms or less that have award guests. The rest of the rooms have paying guests and these days the majority of those are members in the program, even if most are not elite members. You have to remember that the global group of MR and SPG members are not like those of us here on Flyertalk.

SkiAdcock

Does SPG have a version of Marriott Insiders? If so, then a comparison might be more apples/apples if both were combined. Also, we don't know how many SPG elites & Marriott elites are members of FT & how many don't even know FT exists compared to overall program members. I don't really regard a 9 person delta a huge difference.

As you note, it would require more than one data point in more than one area to determine who's the most loyal of them all; there are too many variables to make a single point/snapchat a determinant. Both are hotel programs. Both have extreme loyalists, middle of the road loyalists & don't care much loyalists, in terms of elite members. I guess I don't really see the point of saying one side is more loyal than another. Unless there are points to be earned, then the various loyalists of all degrees would hop to

Cheers.

StarlightSusan

It's completely laughable to use the small differences in the numbers of (self selecting!) readers and members on FT as an indicator of global interest in hotel loyalty programs that have tens of millions of members

drron

Although only 9 readers ahead for SPG there are 2.5 times more MR members than SPG members.
I am active on the Australian Frequent Flyers site.There the figures are for the-
SPG forum-248 threads with 2201 posts.
MR forum-29 threads with 140 posts.
SPG upgrade thread-252 posts with 32717 views.
How does MR treat elites-3 posts with 3614 views.

Certainly suggests in Australia SPG is much more popular than MR.