Why do hotels lie about upgrade availability?
Jul 20, 2015, 9:49 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE MM, Marriott Titanium, National Executive
Posts: 1,586
Why do hotels lie about upgrade availability?
So I just checked into the Sheraton Salt Lake City Hotel and I had booked the Traditional room since it is only 2 nights and I don't need a big room.
I figured if they have something available, great and if not no sweat.
When I checked it I asked if they have any larger rooms available and the lady at the desk said sorry we all completely booked tonight. No problem, I get what I booked right?
Just for fun, I took a look online and the following larger rooms are available to be booked:
Courtyard Loft
Deluxe
Club Floor
Executive Suite.
Being Canadian, I don't complain, but I wonder why they lie about this?
Does corporate care if they tell Platinums that there are no upgrades available if they still sell them on their site?
I figured if they have something available, great and if not no sweat.
When I checked it I asked if they have any larger rooms available and the lady at the desk said sorry we all completely booked tonight. No problem, I get what I booked right?
Just for fun, I took a look online and the following larger rooms are available to be booked:
Courtyard Loft
Deluxe
Club Floor
Executive Suite.
Being Canadian, I don't complain, but I wonder why they lie about this?
Does corporate care if they tell Platinums that there are no upgrades available if they still sell them on their site?
Jul 20, 2015, 10:38 pm
#2
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
1- having just checked seems they are all available for 2 nights, bear in mind that to be UPed it has to be available for the whole length of ones stay
That said 1- The Club room is the exact same size as the Traditional, The Executive Suite most likely isnt a part of the Upgrade pool. The Deluxe is an Accessible room (they can keep that Id rather be in the Traditional.Leaves the Courtyard Loft as most likely what the UP should have been
I run into this very often alot of hotels dont like this part of the program, so they think that by simply saying we are full and nothing is available , we will believe them and move on w/o rattling any feathers
Now you did leave out what time you checked in, remember that the upgrade has to be available when you are checking in! so if its still occupied by another person or hasnt been cleaned yet,they have the right to say sorry no UPs are available at this time. They dont have to say will you like to wait till something is cleaned and available, nice if they do but its not a part of the T&Cs. But they shouldnt flat out lie and say they are full and nothing to UP you to!
That said 1- The Club room is the exact same size as the Traditional, The Executive Suite most likely isnt a part of the Upgrade pool. The Deluxe is an Accessible room (they can keep that Id rather be in the Traditional.Leaves the Courtyard Loft as most likely what the UP should have been
I run into this very often alot of hotels dont like this part of the program, so they think that by simply saying we are full and nothing is available , we will believe them and move on w/o rattling any feathers
Now you did leave out what time you checked in, remember that the upgrade has to be available when you are checking in! so if its still occupied by another person or hasnt been cleaned yet,they have the right to say sorry no UPs are available at this time. They dont have to say will you like to wait till something is cleaned and available, nice if they do but its not a part of the T&Cs. But they shouldnt flat out lie and say they are full and nothing to UP you to!
Jul 20, 2015, 10:42 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE MM, Marriott Titanium, National Executive
Posts: 1,586
1- having just checked seems they are all available for 2 nights, bear in mind that to be UPed it has to be available for the whole length of ones stay
That said 1- The Club room is the exact same size as the Traditional, The Executive Suite most likely isnt a part of the Upgrade pool. The Deluxe is an Accessible room (they can keep that Id rather be in the Traditional.Leaves the Courtyard Loft as most likely what the UP should have been
I run into this very often alot of hotels dont like this part of the program, so they think that by simply saying we are full and nothing is available , we will believe them and move on w/o rattling any feathers
Now you did leave out what time you checked in, remember that the upgrade has to be available when you are checking in! so if its still occupied by another person or hasnt been cleaned yet,they have the right to say sorry no UPs are available at this time. They dont have to say will you like to wait till something is cleaned and available, nice if they do but its not a part of the T&Cs. But they shouldnt flat out lie and say they are full and nothing to UP you to!
That said 1- The Club room is the exact same size as the Traditional, The Executive Suite most likely isnt a part of the Upgrade pool. The Deluxe is an Accessible room (they can keep that Id rather be in the Traditional.Leaves the Courtyard Loft as most likely what the UP should have been
I run into this very often alot of hotels dont like this part of the program, so they think that by simply saying we are full and nothing is available , we will believe them and move on w/o rattling any feathers
Now you did leave out what time you checked in, remember that the upgrade has to be available when you are checking in! so if its still occupied by another person or hasnt been cleaned yet,they have the right to say sorry no UPs are available at this time. They dont have to say will you like to wait till something is cleaned and available, nice if they do but its not a part of the T&Cs. But they shouldnt flat out lie and say they are full and nothing to UP you to!
Jul 20, 2015, 10:49 pm
#4
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: KSA
Programs: Marriott AMB, Skywards Gold
Posts: 3,737
Just made a dummy booking, and the Executive Suite is not available for SNA request. So it is not part of the upgrade pool. However, you should've been at least able to be upgraded to a club floor room.
Jul 20, 2015, 11:30 pm
#5
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The World
Programs: WS Platinum, Marriott Titanium, DL Gold, UA Silver
Posts: 1,478
This has been discussed in many previous threads.
Most here concur that hotels (well, almost all of them) do not "lie" about upgrade availability. Some folks here do disagree though.
- SPG.com does not necessarily show real-time availability, and very often doesn't. It's a web reservation portal, not a live inventory system. (While there are many reasons for that, one biggie is that no hotel operator would want their inventory of available rooms visible to competing hotels or chains.)
- Most hotels routinely overbook... for all room types. Including suites. Again, what you see online is not an accurate reflection of what a property actually has available.
- If they do have upgrade-eligible suites that aren't booked, they might already be allocated as upgrades to other Platinun members. If a hotel has 10 upgrade-eligible rooms available, but 25 Platinum guests arriving, there may well be "sellable" suites available if someone reserves one on a revenue booking before the Plat arrives. But you won't get upgraded to it unless you're one of the lucky Platinums to make the cut. (While some here argue that it's first-come, first-served, it's not. Hotels have a lot of latitude to determine allocation of Plat upgrades on check-in day. Beating other Plats to the front desk doesn't increase your odds of snagging an upgrade ... if another late-arriving Plat has already been tagged for an upgrade.)
- As a revenue management (ie overbooking) strategy, some hotels will intentionally force some room types to remain bookable when all basic rooms are sold out. They want to keep reservations coming in until they hit the magic number that will give them 100% occupancy. But if the only unsold room is the Presidential Suite, they likely won't get a last minute booking for it (and would never publicly discount the price down). So, instead, they might show another, more affordable and more sellable suite as being available when it isn't. And then someone gets bumped to the Pres Suite. So an upgrade-eligible standard suite might appear online, but they may all truly be sold.
The "lies" about available upgrades, IMHO, are few and far between. And I don't think there's any big "cut back on the upgrades" conspiracy out there.
Rather, there are just a whole lot of Plats chasing more upgrades than are truly available ... and a whole lot of hotels trying to intelligently (and honestly) manage their revenue while also giving upgrades when they can.
YMMV.
Most here concur that hotels (well, almost all of them) do not "lie" about upgrade availability. Some folks here do disagree though.
- SPG.com does not necessarily show real-time availability, and very often doesn't. It's a web reservation portal, not a live inventory system. (While there are many reasons for that, one biggie is that no hotel operator would want their inventory of available rooms visible to competing hotels or chains.)
- Most hotels routinely overbook... for all room types. Including suites. Again, what you see online is not an accurate reflection of what a property actually has available.
- If they do have upgrade-eligible suites that aren't booked, they might already be allocated as upgrades to other Platinun members. If a hotel has 10 upgrade-eligible rooms available, but 25 Platinum guests arriving, there may well be "sellable" suites available if someone reserves one on a revenue booking before the Plat arrives. But you won't get upgraded to it unless you're one of the lucky Platinums to make the cut. (While some here argue that it's first-come, first-served, it's not. Hotels have a lot of latitude to determine allocation of Plat upgrades on check-in day. Beating other Plats to the front desk doesn't increase your odds of snagging an upgrade ... if another late-arriving Plat has already been tagged for an upgrade.)
- As a revenue management (ie overbooking) strategy, some hotels will intentionally force some room types to remain bookable when all basic rooms are sold out. They want to keep reservations coming in until they hit the magic number that will give them 100% occupancy. But if the only unsold room is the Presidential Suite, they likely won't get a last minute booking for it (and would never publicly discount the price down). So, instead, they might show another, more affordable and more sellable suite as being available when it isn't. And then someone gets bumped to the Pres Suite. So an upgrade-eligible standard suite might appear online, but they may all truly be sold.
The "lies" about available upgrades, IMHO, are few and far between. And I don't think there's any big "cut back on the upgrades" conspiracy out there.
Rather, there are just a whole lot of Plats chasing more upgrades than are truly available ... and a whole lot of hotels trying to intelligently (and honestly) manage their revenue while also giving upgrades when they can.
YMMV.
Jul 20, 2015, 11:47 pm
#6
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: KSA
Programs: Marriott AMB, Skywards Gold
Posts: 3,737
As a revenue management (ie overbooking) strategy, some hotels will intentionally force some room types to remain bookable when all basic rooms are sold out. They want to keep reservations coming in until they hit the magic number that will give them 100% occupancy. But if the only unsold room is the Presidential Suite, they likely won't get a last minute booking for it (and would never publicly discount the price down). So, instead, they might show another, more affordable and more sellable suite as being available when it isn't. And then someone gets bumped to the Pres Suite. So an upgrade-eligible standard suite might appear online, but they may all truly be sold.
It doesn't make any sense. As far as I can remember, this happened to me twice, Both Westins, Paris and Kuala Lumpur. Where I booked the suite on the spot. They then said a room magically appeared and it's yours now. It's sad to say that some do lie.
Jul 20, 2015, 11:51 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE MM, Marriott Titanium, National Executive
Posts: 1,586
This has been discussed in many previous threads.
Most here concur that hotels (well, almost all of them) do not "lie" about upgrade availability. Some folks here do disagree though.
- SPG.com does not necessarily show real-time availability, and very often doesn't. It's a web reservation portal, not a live inventory system. (While there are many reasons for that, one biggie is that no hotel operator would want their inventory of available rooms visible to competing hotels or chains.)
- Most hotels routinely overbook... for all room types. Including suites. Again, what you see online is not an accurate reflection of what a property actually has available.
- If they do have upgrade-eligible suites that aren't booked, they might already be allocated as upgrades to other Platinun members. If a hotel has 10 upgrade-eligible rooms available, but 25 Platinum guests arriving, there may well be "sellable" suites available if someone reserves one on a revenue booking before the Plat arrives. But you won't get upgraded to it unless you're one of the lucky Platinums to make the cut. (While some here argue that it's first-come, first-served, it's not. Hotels have a lot of latitude to determine allocation of Plat upgrades on check-in day. Beating other Plats to the front desk doesn't increase your odds of snagging an upgrade ... if another late-arriving Plat has already been tagged for an upgrade.)
- As a revenue management (ie overbooking) strategy, some hotels will intentionally force some room types to remain bookable when all basic rooms are sold out. They want to keep reservations coming in until they hit the magic number that will give them 100% occupancy. But if the only unsold room is the Presidential Suite, they likely won't get a last minute booking for it (and would never publicly discount the price down). So, instead, they might show another, more affordable and more sellable suite as being available when it isn't. And then someone gets bumped to the Pres Suite. So an upgrade-eligible standard suite might appear online, but they may all truly be sold.
The "lies" about available upgrades, IMHO, are few and far between. And I don't think there's any big "cut back on the upgrades" conspiracy out there.
Rather, there are just a whole lot of Plats chasing more upgrades than are truly available ... and a whole lot of hotels trying to intelligently (and honestly) manage their revenue while also giving upgrades when they can.
YMMV.
Most here concur that hotels (well, almost all of them) do not "lie" about upgrade availability. Some folks here do disagree though.
- SPG.com does not necessarily show real-time availability, and very often doesn't. It's a web reservation portal, not a live inventory system. (While there are many reasons for that, one biggie is that no hotel operator would want their inventory of available rooms visible to competing hotels or chains.)
- Most hotels routinely overbook... for all room types. Including suites. Again, what you see online is not an accurate reflection of what a property actually has available.
- If they do have upgrade-eligible suites that aren't booked, they might already be allocated as upgrades to other Platinun members. If a hotel has 10 upgrade-eligible rooms available, but 25 Platinum guests arriving, there may well be "sellable" suites available if someone reserves one on a revenue booking before the Plat arrives. But you won't get upgraded to it unless you're one of the lucky Platinums to make the cut. (While some here argue that it's first-come, first-served, it's not. Hotels have a lot of latitude to determine allocation of Plat upgrades on check-in day. Beating other Plats to the front desk doesn't increase your odds of snagging an upgrade ... if another late-arriving Plat has already been tagged for an upgrade.)
- As a revenue management (ie overbooking) strategy, some hotels will intentionally force some room types to remain bookable when all basic rooms are sold out. They want to keep reservations coming in until they hit the magic number that will give them 100% occupancy. But if the only unsold room is the Presidential Suite, they likely won't get a last minute booking for it (and would never publicly discount the price down). So, instead, they might show another, more affordable and more sellable suite as being available when it isn't. And then someone gets bumped to the Pres Suite. So an upgrade-eligible standard suite might appear online, but they may all truly be sold.
The "lies" about available upgrades, IMHO, are few and far between. And I don't think there's any big "cut back on the upgrades" conspiracy out there.
Rather, there are just a whole lot of Plats chasing more upgrades than are truly available ... and a whole lot of hotels trying to intelligently (and honestly) manage their revenue while also giving upgrades when they can.
YMMV.
For the record, I did not ask for a suite, just a bigger room or bigger bed, she immediately answered we are completely booked and did not actually even pretend to look. Either she knew it was completely booked (and they are still willing to sell rooms - I was able to dummy book 4 rooms) or she was not being completely honest.
Last edited by mendy7511; Jul 21, 2015 at 12:40 am
Jul 21, 2015, 2:46 am
#8
Join Date: May 1999
Location: YEG
Posts: 1,578
OP- I stayed at this hotel last year. they offered me a suite at check-in but I declined because it is a 2 story suite plus it is located far from the club lounge (separate building). FDC offered me a nice club room.
I don't believe hotels lie about upgrades. As FlyerJ said in his/her excellent post, hotels do block suites for platinum guest. for suite upgrade allocation, I strongly believe that Platinum 100 should have priority over platinum who just finished a challenge.
sometimes hotels upgrade me to a suite at time of booking, a week before arrival, one day before arrival, at Check-in and sometimes no suite upgrades.
I am currently staying at a Starwood hotel. my suite upgrade was allocated at check-in
I don't believe hotels lie about upgrades. As FlyerJ said in his/her excellent post, hotels do block suites for platinum guest. for suite upgrade allocation, I strongly believe that Platinum 100 should have priority over platinum who just finished a challenge.
sometimes hotels upgrade me to a suite at time of booking, a week before arrival, one day before arrival, at Check-in and sometimes no suite upgrades.
I am currently staying at a Starwood hotel. my suite upgrade was allocated at check-in
Jul 21, 2015, 4:55 am
#9
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Programs: Bonvoy Gold, AA Plat, Volare Premier, VS Silver, National Emerald Elite, Hertz President Circle
Posts: 2,526
Yes, hotels do end up having no suites; but in many places suites are available and not assigned when keys are produced for platinum guests beforehand.
OP: because some properties (maybe a minority?) would like you to pay for those suites and for all we know SPG's actions are insufficient to change their manners.
I avoid them and choose those who do upgrade me. I taste the waters back every now and then and let them know why I'll choose the other property over them.
The updated guest survey does ask whether the guest was given reasons at check-in as to why his preferred room (suite?) was not available. How many guests are told "I am sorry we do not have a suite for you today; here's a plain room; sorry"? Not many I think; most are simply handed out the key.
OP: because some properties (maybe a minority?) would like you to pay for those suites and for all we know SPG's actions are insufficient to change their manners.
I avoid them and choose those who do upgrade me. I taste the waters back every now and then and let them know why I'll choose the other property over them.
The updated guest survey does ask whether the guest was given reasons at check-in as to why his preferred room (suite?) was not available. How many guests are told "I am sorry we do not have a suite for you today; here's a plain room; sorry"? Not many I think; most are simply handed out the key.
Jul 21, 2015, 8:22 am
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South Florida
Programs: AA LTG (EXP), Hilton Silver (Dia), Marriott LTP (PP), SPG LTG (P) > MPG LTPP
Posts: 11,329
FlyerJ is correct in his post and this has been discussed at great length in other threads. Although it does seem they are lying, it's more likely you're dealing with faulty data. What properties load into SPG.com typically does not represent actual inventory. Hotels have been in the business for quite some time and there is a ton of statistics that support the over-sell technique. In the case where everyone does show up, the property will exercise its walk procedures. And should they have a walkup, rack rate gives them lots of wiggle room in putting people elsewhere as they may have cooperative agreements with nearby properties to take their overflow if possible.
Jul 21, 2015, 8:24 am
#11
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: ATL
Programs: SPG, DL
Posts: 307
Setting suite upgrades aside (where limited availability may lead to suites appearing "available" but not being handed out), I tend to agree with OP based on my experiences at various SPG hotels.
The vast majority of times, the hotels seem to rely on SPGs automated upgrade system. You can see this in the app about 1-2 days before arrival, the type of your room will change (e.g., for me as a gold last week at Westin Grand Central, booked standard room, room type changed to deluxe morning before arrival). Then, on arrival at the hotel "sir, we've upgraded you to xxx room."
So, if the automated system doesn't upgrade you, you don't get upgraded. I've NEVER received an upgrade that DIDN'T show up on the app before check-in without asking.
Another problem/observation about this system, is that when I book something other than a standard room (a club room at the sheraton bloomington comes to mind), I always get the "sir, we've upgraded you to xxx" when xxx is exactly what I originally booked. No, I wasn't upgraded.
Further, I almost NEVER get upgraded more than one "level" (e.g. from standard to deluxe at Westin) even when higher level (non suite) rooms are available. How do I know a higher level room is available? Generally I simply ask them to put me in xxx room (based on what I view as available in the app). The clerk usually looks at me quizzically, I say "I checked what was available on my phone" they look back at the computer, and viola, I get what I asked for.
I've had a few good experiences where I was actually upgraded to the "top" level room available (W NOLA to a balcony room for my wife's bday comes to mind), but these are the exception, not the norm.
TLDR, OP didn't get rolled into the automatic upgrade sweep, and didn't press the agent further, thus received the short end of the stick.
Finally, I'm not sure "lying" is the right term, I view it simply as being lazy/rushed--they take what the system spits out, assuming the system is correct, and take no pro-active measures to assure the best/correct room is being delivered.
The vast majority of times, the hotels seem to rely on SPGs automated upgrade system. You can see this in the app about 1-2 days before arrival, the type of your room will change (e.g., for me as a gold last week at Westin Grand Central, booked standard room, room type changed to deluxe morning before arrival). Then, on arrival at the hotel "sir, we've upgraded you to xxx room."
So, if the automated system doesn't upgrade you, you don't get upgraded. I've NEVER received an upgrade that DIDN'T show up on the app before check-in without asking.
Another problem/observation about this system, is that when I book something other than a standard room (a club room at the sheraton bloomington comes to mind), I always get the "sir, we've upgraded you to xxx" when xxx is exactly what I originally booked. No, I wasn't upgraded.
Further, I almost NEVER get upgraded more than one "level" (e.g. from standard to deluxe at Westin) even when higher level (non suite) rooms are available. How do I know a higher level room is available? Generally I simply ask them to put me in xxx room (based on what I view as available in the app). The clerk usually looks at me quizzically, I say "I checked what was available on my phone" they look back at the computer, and viola, I get what I asked for.
I've had a few good experiences where I was actually upgraded to the "top" level room available (W NOLA to a balcony room for my wife's bday comes to mind), but these are the exception, not the norm.
TLDR, OP didn't get rolled into the automatic upgrade sweep, and didn't press the agent further, thus received the short end of the stick.
Finally, I'm not sure "lying" is the right term, I view it simply as being lazy/rushed--they take what the system spits out, assuming the system is correct, and take no pro-active measures to assure the best/correct room is being delivered.
Jul 21, 2015, 8:27 am
#12
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York, NY
Programs: Delta - Gold; Starwood - Platinum; HHonors - Diamond & Avis Preferred
Posts: 10,869
So I just checked into the Sheraton Salt Lake City Hotel and I had booked the Traditional room since it is only 2 nights and I don't need a big room.
I figured if they have something available, great and if not no sweat.
When I checked it I asked if they have any larger rooms available and the lady at the desk said sorry we all completely booked tonight. No problem, I get what I booked right?
Just for fun, I took a look online and the following larger rooms are available to be booked:
Courtyard Loft
Deluxe
Club Floor
Executive Suite.
Being Canadian, I don't complain, but I wonder why they lie about this?
Does corporate care if they tell Platinums that there are no upgrades available if they still sell them on their site?
I figured if they have something available, great and if not no sweat.
When I checked it I asked if they have any larger rooms available and the lady at the desk said sorry we all completely booked tonight. No problem, I get what I booked right?
Just for fun, I took a look online and the following larger rooms are available to be booked:
Courtyard Loft
Deluxe
Club Floor
Executive Suite.
Being Canadian, I don't complain, but I wonder why they lie about this?
Does corporate care if they tell Platinums that there are no upgrades available if they still sell them on their site?
Just a few examples:
Platinum upgrades, do you need to ask to get them?
Fighting for Platinum Upgrades
About room upgrades
So...how are upgrades assigned?
Do You Ask About Suite Upgrades?
Jul 21, 2015, 8:38 am
#13
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,990
Many versions of this topic have been discussed over and over.
Just a few examples:
Platinum upgrades, do you need to ask to get them?
Fighting for Platinum Upgrades
About room upgrades
So...how are upgrades assigned?
Do You Ask About Suite Upgrades?
Just a few examples:
Platinum upgrades, do you need to ask to get them?
Fighting for Platinum Upgrades
About room upgrades
So...how are upgrades assigned?
Do You Ask About Suite Upgrades?
It's amazing to me how easily people accuse others of 'lying', when, in this and many other cases, it's actually the accuser who is in the wrong.
Cheers,
Jul 21, 2015, 8:40 am
#14
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York, NY
Programs: Delta - Gold; Starwood - Platinum; HHonors - Diamond & Avis Preferred
Posts: 10,869
Jul 21, 2015, 8:41 am
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BOS/UTH
Programs: AA LT PLT; QR GLD; Bonvoy LT TIT
Posts: 12,753
To William, et al.: For PLT upgrades, are the different categories of PLT considered based on status? So, for example, PLT 100 (Ambassador) is upgraded before PLT 75 is upgraded before PLT 50?