E1A

The general consensus on the forums seems to be that status is valid in the year it is earned, the following year and expires the year after the following year in Feb/March.

So status earned anytime between January 1st of this year to now would be valid all of 2015, all of 2016 and till end of Feb 2017.

The T&C seem to back up this interpretations quite clearly:

I then saw this post by Starwood Lurker which implies something different:

https://milepoint.com/forums/threads.../#post-1583825

I then contacted SPG support, which was the usual crapshoot (sir, it is calculated on a YTD basis, it is calculated every year and other incorrect answers that were neither here nor there). I twice escalated to Supervisors just to make sure.

I had also meanwhile sent off an email to Starwood Lurker but his response was totally different (and in my interpretation at odds with the T&C). He mentioned that status earned before March 1st in any year is only valid till March 1st of next year and not the year after that (or the two months after that). He also said he does not believe the T&C state it as being anything different.

So now we have some SPG supervisors, T&C and our understanding as being one thing and Starwood Lurker and other supervisors suggesting another.
It is entirely possible (and highly likely) that Starwood Lurker is right but then why isn't that reflected in T&C and why are Supervisors backing up the T&C and our current interpretation?

Is there a written booklet anyone has that comes with the Elite tier mailed package which may have updated T&C? (though logically, the most recent version ought to be online and the posts by Starwood Lurker that initially highlighted this difference are from few years ago, plenty of time for SPG to update T&C) .

Also what is members personal experience with earning status before March 1, what happened?

E1A

I got some callbacks now. These were from when me and the Supervisor both agreed there is an issue and agreed this needs to be escalated. They said they couldn't transfer me any further but would arrange callbacks.

The staff then mentioned both the contradictory things. I believe one side (Lurker's interpretation) is telling us how it IS implemented and another side (T&C and our interpretation) is how it *should* be implemented.

What confuses me is when the people telling us how it is currently implemented refuse to agree that its contradicting T&C :S

T&C make it very clear that qualifying period is Jan 1-Dec 31 and any status earned during this period is valid during this period, the next period and first 2 months of the period after that. They even give an example to illustrate it! So it is quite frustrating to be told after them reading the T&C that they don't even think that their interpretation differs from T&C. This is quite a legal objective thing, I see almost no room for an alternate interpretation as the T&C make no mention of 1 March or Jan/Feb not being valid qualifying periods. Infact the T&C give an example to avoid confusion.

One of the supervisors said she would lodge an amendment of T&C request which was just....I mean after you realise you differ from T&C, how can the logical conclusion be that you are right and T&C are wrong even with their example?

So the confusion goes right up the chain. That's fine, these things happen. But multiple people have refused to talk to me about it any further saying this is how it is (which is ok, I can deal with that) and that T&C DON'T state anything different (that is much more worrying)

jibi

The T&Cs are very clear and I don't see any room for an alternate interpretation of the rules as they're written today. There is no way the interpretation you're being provided is correct - no matter the source - unless it is an interpretation of a future version of the T&Cs. Considering the post you provided was from 2.5 years ago and no changes have been made, I don't think they were planning to update the T&Cs. You should receive benefits according to the current version of the T&Cs.

It simply does not make sense to provide someone who earns elite status on February 28 with benefits for 12 months while providing someone who earns status on March 1 with those same benefits for 24 months. The reality of benefits is there is always some overlap and no active elite members ever realize the entire benefits period because of this natural overlap. The only people who truly receive their benefits in the manner described in the T&Cs (up to ~25.5 months) are those who decide not to continue earning elite status during consecutive years.

There is no way to correct this issue while maintaining the static periods for Qualifying (January 1 through December 31) and Benefits (March 1 through the end of February). They would need to switch the Benefits period to a variable 12 month period for each elite member. Knowing what we do about SPG IT, that won't happen.

MSPeconomist

However, in most FF programs there are specific rules about how long status lasts when it's received through a status match or challenge rather than being earned according to the standard criteria that apply to everyone year after year. Many airlines have a midyear rule, presumably because it's not reasonable to expect someone to earn status in a few remaining months of a year, versus giving them almost a whole year with status benefits in the interim. When status is earned extremely early in the year, it's almost surely due to some challenge, match, or other gifted/comped offer. If it's a challenge, chances are that the challenge started during the previous year, which might make a difference. If someone gets status via a challenge or match in January or February, it seems reasonable to me that the status lasts through the following February, roughly thirteen months, rather than for about twenty-five months or over two years.

IMO the situation is very different if the person earns status by the 50 nights or 25 stays criteria early in the calendar year.

CPRich

I seem to recall that the entire "if before March 1, then only until next March 1" went away a while back, but after the time of OP's link.

We'll await William's update.

jibi

Agreed.

E1A, are you qualifying for SPG PLT via a status match/challenge from another program or through 25+ stays/50+ nights? The March 1 date holds true for status matches/challenges.

E1A

@Jibi: It doesn't personally apply to me since I haven't matched, I've always done SPG the traditional way (usually nights qualification).

I never once mentioned challenge/match in my conversations with SPG though, and I did repeatedly clarify that this is how the regular status worked. They also told me that this applies to status earned via any avenue and is how it 'regularly' works

What I found really 'off' in my conversations with them was not that they stated it works a way in which we are not used to but rather the stone walling when I very very politely suggested that this may differ from what the T&C state. Some flat out refused to even acknowledge a difference whereas the only ones that did (the ones I could pursue to actually read the T&C), said they would send in a request to get them amended.

Both approaches made no sense to me.
How can you possibly read that section in the T&C and read "March 1"or "12 months" when neither is mentioned even once.
When your info differs from written T&C, why would you assume written T&C is incorrect?

I agree completely that if the T&C haven't changed in a couple of years it is a suggestion that they are indeed correct as written. Moreover, they are written very clearly and the provided example within T&C illustrates their intent.

Once I was told that there was no point discussing this further since I am not understanding what the T&C mean, I stopped and posted my findings here.

bdemaria

The linked post is from 2012.

supatight80

Well this doesn't make any sense..

My status is valid until Feb 28 2016 (from the nights I accumulated during the year 2014).

So if I accumulated 50 nights/25 stays during Jan/Feb 2015, they're saying my status is still only valid until Feb 28, 2016??

In effect, what platinum concierge is saying is that I should accumulate more than 50 nights or 25 stays during 2015 to retain platinum status if the first 50 nights or 25 stays fall during the first 2 months of the calender year? Lovely....

stargold

Did Plat challenge 18 nights in January - became Plat till Feb 2016.

Then completed 50 nights by mid-Feb - status validity was changed to Feb 2017.

So my experience tallies with what people are saying on the thread, which is that challenge before March = no extra year, whereas proper qualification before March = extra year.

Starwood Lurker

edited

E1A

Although that might have been for earning it twice over. Hyatt works that way too, you get twice validity for being "double" Diamond. SPG says you can only earn it once clearly but then they also state their terms for the issue at hand clearly and well....its not so clear to me.

Had another call from Corporate again and she agreed current situation isn't ideal so I'm thankful they're finally at least acknowledging there is an issue and that something ought to be done. I'm not sure if they're actually going to do something about it though and which way (amend terms or amend how they're implemented, my guess is they will amend terms)

My guess (And that's all it is) would be that they would add the validity on top of the existing one, that would seem logical. You could still get caught out if they don't but the people who will *surely* get caught out are the ones that properly earn status without having the same status pre-existing in Jan/Feb. This would be a very dense two months to make platinum but this makes the case of Golds very common and curious. This year I was gunning for Hyatt Diamond which I achieved by mid Feb (starting from late Jan) but otherwise I (and many) could easily make Gold within first two months of a year.

So if I made Gold on Feb 25th and you purposely stopped staying at Starwood and made Gold on March 2 on purpose, you would benefit by an extra 12 months and I would be penalised 12 months for getting their early. That's the part they need to figure out, a loyalty program should under no circumstances prevent anyone from staying or penalise them for staying sooner.

Honestly, the way the T&C state it, would ideally be the perfect implementation and to the best of my knowledge, some competitors do it that way.

This lack of clarity applies to Hyatt too btw.....received different answers there as well. Still trying to figure that one out too (Though din't think it was such a good idea to start another similar thread there, infact I only thought to ask them once this conundrum came up, and yep same issues there).

CPRich

Confused.

These seem to be in conflict.

And if it is an error, and stargold's 50 nights by mid-Feb only qualified to Feb 2016, how does s/he "re-qualify" in the remaining 10.5 months?

Starwood Lurker

edited

supatight80

William,

Just to clarify, if I stayed 50 nights during Jan/Feb this year, then my platinum status is good until Feb 28 2016.

Does that mean I have to stay another 50 nights or 25 stays from March - Dec 2015 to have platinum until Feb 2017?

And if I don't stay at a starwood property after Feb 2015 (after accumulating 50 nights during the first 2 months of the year), then my platinum status is only good til Feb 28 2016?