SPG Amex foreign charge warning
Aug 16, 2010, 5:48 am
#16
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Upcountry Maui, HI
Posts: 13,326
wow, they ream you folks up north and down under. I guess I would use a different card when traveling under those circumstances. Hey, I already do, for the most part, even without the extra conversion. 
I carry an otherwise crappy (rewards-wise) Capital One card primarily for its zero fee on forex transactions feature.
-David
I carry an otherwise crappy (rewards-wise) Capital One card primarily for its zero fee on forex transactions feature.
-David
Oct 26, 2010, 5:05 am
#17
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: AA DL UA SU
Posts: 102
I also have the SPG card and I avoid using it in any way overseas. The forex charge and double conversions are really making a lot of money for AMEX. I just got the new Hyatt Visa card which does NOT have a forex charge and use it a lot for overseas purchases. How does the CAP One card compare ?
Oct 26, 2010, 7:12 am
#18
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, Bonvoy, Alaska, Avios
Posts: 1,290
That's what I thought too. However I used my card in Mexico back in July for 7-8 purchases. I worked out the rate and I got a 11.88 (XE rate was 12.25ish), I also got this rate from the bank machines when we withdrew cash from our bank accounts. So I'm not sure about the MX->US->CA double exchange. I was happy to get about 20% off my purchases! 2 years ago we were getting a 10:1 exchange.
May 15, 2011, 8:36 am
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,807
AMEX padded its exchange rate to a full 3% then charge a 2.7% foreign transaction fee
In a search I unearthed this old thread and felt the need to add our recent experience on the SPG card used for car rental in France.
The only reason we used the SPG card was for the premium insurance program we enrolled in. Otherwise we would use any of the other 3 or 4 0 forex cards we carry - FIA (old Schwab card w/2% rebate), C1 card, Citi PPE, and Chase Priority Club - all of them has 0% forex fee and offer primary rental car coverage except the process of filing a claim is much more involved than the AMEX program which charges a flat premium per rental but the "promised" hassle-free process seems to worth it.
The rental cost was 221.70 euro and Avis was instructed to bill us in Euro. It showed up on our SPG as 331.8 USD, at a rate of 1.4968 when the historic inter-bank avg rate for May 7th was only 1.4505, and on May 8th was 1.4309. Rates went nosedive since May 9th. Thus making the padding AMEX added on being over well over 3%. Of course AMEX then charges the 2.7% foreign transaction fee. All done, AMEX has added almost 6% to the transaction amount in the form of an very inflated exchange rate + the foreign transaction fee.
To make things "worse", the usual AMEX insurance premium has NOT been charged - makes me wonder if we have an accident, would it be covered at all? If not, then it totally defeats the purpose of using the SPG card for car rental and we have paid extra 6% for nothing!
Next time the SPG card would stay home when our international trip does not involving staying in SPG properties at all.
The only reason we used the SPG card was for the premium insurance program we enrolled in. Otherwise we would use any of the other 3 or 4 0 forex cards we carry - FIA (old Schwab card w/2% rebate), C1 card, Citi PPE, and Chase Priority Club - all of them has 0% forex fee and offer primary rental car coverage except the process of filing a claim is much more involved than the AMEX program which charges a flat premium per rental but the "promised" hassle-free process seems to worth it.
The rental cost was 221.70 euro and Avis was instructed to bill us in Euro. It showed up on our SPG as 331.8 USD, at a rate of 1.4968 when the historic inter-bank avg rate for May 7th was only 1.4505, and on May 8th was 1.4309. Rates went nosedive since May 9th. Thus making the padding AMEX added on being over well over 3%. Of course AMEX then charges the 2.7% foreign transaction fee. All done, AMEX has added almost 6% to the transaction amount in the form of an very inflated exchange rate + the foreign transaction fee.
To make things "worse", the usual AMEX insurance premium has NOT been charged - makes me wonder if we have an accident, would it be covered at all? If not, then it totally defeats the purpose of using the SPG card for car rental and we have paid extra 6% for nothing!
Next time the SPG card would stay home when our international trip does not involving staying in SPG properties at all.
Last edited by Happy; May 15, 2011 at 8:43 am
May 15, 2011, 12:02 pm
#20
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,695
Interesting. I was wondering if it had been done on the 11th (when, as beachfan noted, the euro got crushed) in which case Amex could be slightly lagged, but a 2 day lag seems very odd.
I've also noticed Amex as being a bit strange as to the exact exchange rate they choose to use. With Citibank I can look at spot rates on various days and am almost always extremely close (say within 25 basis points or so). Amex much less so.
In fact, reading their forex disclosure, it says:
This basically seems to give them carte blanche to choose the rate over a 2 day period that favors them the most. It would be interesting to know what a euro-denominated Amex card used as the conversion rate for a USD purchase on 8/12.
The lesson seems to be, when using Amex after a large currency move in your favor, try to wait 2 days after if possible.
I've also noticed Amex as being a bit strange as to the exact exchange rate they choose to use. With Citibank I can look at spot rates on various days and am almost always extremely close (say within 25 basis points or so). Amex much less so.
In fact, reading their forex disclosure, it says:
This basically seems to give them carte blanche to choose the rate over a 2 day period that favors them the most. It would be interesting to know what a euro-denominated Amex card used as the conversion rate for a USD purchase on 8/12.
The lesson seems to be, when using Amex after a large currency move in your favor, try to wait 2 days after if possible.
May 15, 2011, 3:08 pm
#21
Join Date: Jan 2000
Programs: UA 1k, AA EXPLT, NZ GE, VA PLT Hyatt Diam, Marr Plat, HH Diam
Posts: 3,448
Note also that the SPG Business Amex card does NOT include car rental CDW.
May 15, 2011, 3:58 pm
#22
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: AUS / DXB
Programs: BA Silver | AA LT Gold | EY Silver | Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 1,838
This seems to be a documented issue across all Amex cards. I have used my Corporate Amex abroad (as mandated by my employer) and the base rate seems to be padded, even before the FX fee is applied. For personal use, I just stick with the BA Chase Visa. At least with the BA Visa I can verify that the rate used was a published rate at the day of posting, and there are no FX fees.
May 15, 2011, 5:12 pm
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South Florida
Programs: AA LTG (EXP), Hilton Silver (Dia), Marriott LTP (PP), SPG LTG (P) > MPG LTPP
Posts: 11,329
Another trick is to rent the car with the card with the best benefits/insurance and if you don't have any issues change cards when you turn in the car to the one with the best exchange rates. May take longer than just a grab and go, but if you're looking to save $s you've got to be willing to loose time.
May 15, 2011, 9:19 pm
#24
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Houston (IAH,HOU) / Kāʻanapali (JHM,OGG)
Programs: UA GS 2MM, AA P 2MM, DL PM, US P, VS G, SPG LT P, HH D, HYATT P, PC P, AVIS PC, HERTZ PLAT
Posts: 970
Consider that the CO Presidential Plus card has no forex fees and double miles on hotel and rent cars + primary rent car insurance this is the card where all my personal spg hotel stays go on overseas.
May 15, 2011, 11:50 pm
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,807
Another trick is to rent the car with the card with the best benefits/insurance and if you don't have any issues change cards when you turn in the car to the one with the best exchange rates. May take longer than just a grab and go, but if you're looking to save $s you've got to be willing to loose time.
Not feeling comfortable to have no evidence of the car being returned safe and sound, I had the Avis guy written down his name, time of return and Full tank, signed and stamped the location's "official stamp" on the contract. I am not sure whether the location actually has the ability to switch the CC stored in the system. At the pick up location in Toulouse the Avis staff had to fiddle a bit just to figure out how to take off the optional insurance items that were automatically added on the contract by their system. It is very different practice from renting in US / Canada.
Last edited by Happy; May 15, 2011 at 11:58 pm
May 16, 2011, 7:11 am
#26
Join Date: Aug 2006
Programs: Hyatt Diamond, SPG LT Plat, AA 3MM EXP
Posts: 397
Nor does it give you any of the consumer protections that the Credit CARD Act of 2009 does. Corporate cards are governed by the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code), where you WILL be liable for any unauthorized purchases (no $50 limit here). There are many, many reasons why a small business owner should NEVER use a corporate branded card like OPEN, Plum, etc.
May 16, 2011, 9:15 pm
#27
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,473
Didn't know this!
Nor does it give you any of the consumer protections that the Credit CARD Act of 2009 does. Corporate cards are governed by the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code), where you WILL be liable for any unauthorized purchases (no $50 limit here). There are many, many reasons why a small business owner should NEVER use a corporate branded card like OPEN, Plum, etc.
My company makes me use a crappy Visa Card emblazoned with the corporate logo and no rewards points/miles.
So the UCC applies to all corporate-issued cards, or just certain ones branded as such by AX, VS, MC?