ExpertFlyer shows wrong availability
Aug 4, 2007 | 5:09 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: (mostly) where I want to be
Posts: 11
ExpertFlyer shows wrong availability
I do not know whether this post belongs in here... Anyhow, I just subscribed to ExpertFlyer's premium service and on my first try to use the system, it failed:
I contacted United to book an around the world business class ticket (CRWSTAR1) which has international booking class "D". While ExpertFlyer showed availability on my chosen dates for a particular leg (D1 on one day and D4 on two subsquent days), United told me that there is no availability in D for such leg on any of these flights.
Naturally, if ExpertFlyer is well behind the true availability as used by the airlines, it is not worth much. I thought that the system is updated every 10 minutes? If so, why is there such a discrepancy?
Has anyone experienced the same issue?
I contacted United to book an around the world business class ticket (CRWSTAR1) which has international booking class "D". While ExpertFlyer showed availability on my chosen dates for a particular leg (D1 on one day and D4 on two subsquent days), United told me that there is no availability in D for such leg on any of these flights.
Naturally, if ExpertFlyer is well behind the true availability as used by the airlines, it is not worth much. I thought that the system is updated every 10 minutes? If so, why is there such a discrepancy?
Has anyone experienced the same issue?
Aug 4, 2007 | 5:22 pm
#3
Moderator: Asiana & Qantas Frequent Flyer
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: STR/SYD/SMF
Programs: QF LTG / P1 , LH LT SEN / HON, OZ LT Diamond +, Marriott LT PT, HH Diamond,
Posts: 15,149
Welcome to FT awmawm. Behind booking classes like C and D there are further sub classes for special fares. In other words, even so there is D class available does not mean you can get it with your particular fare. I am not an EF user but I think you can search specifically for RTW availability not just generic D class.
Or just try KVS....
Or just try KVS....
Aug 4, 2007 | 5:42 pm
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: (mostly) where I want to be
Posts: 11
8/15/07:
SQ491 DXB-SIN Availability: D1
8/16/07:
SQ806 SIN-PVG Availability: D1
8/16/07:
SQ375 DXB-SIN Availability: D4
8/17/07:
SQ826 SIN-PVG Availability: D4
8/16/07:
SQ495 DXB-SIN Availability: D4
8/17/07:
SQ806 SIN-PVG Availability: D4
8/17/07:
SQ491 DXB-SIN Availability: D4
8/18/07:
SQ806 SIN-PVG Availability: D4
Just looked it up again at 6:40pm CST on 8/4/07 and reconfirmed again with United that there is no availability on any of these flights in "D".
SQ491 DXB-SIN Availability: D1
8/16/07:
SQ806 SIN-PVG Availability: D1
8/16/07:
SQ375 DXB-SIN Availability: D4
8/17/07:
SQ826 SIN-PVG Availability: D4
8/16/07:
SQ495 DXB-SIN Availability: D4
8/17/07:
SQ806 SIN-PVG Availability: D4
8/17/07:
SQ491 DXB-SIN Availability: D4
8/18/07:
SQ806 SIN-PVG Availability: D4
Just looked it up again at 6:40pm CST on 8/4/07 and reconfirmed again with United that there is no availability on any of these flights in "D".
Aug 4, 2007 | 5:50 pm
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,952
[KVS Availability Tool 2.8.5/Platinum - Sabre: ITN/US-AXC1]
Code:
DXB Dubai AE [OMDB]
PVG Shanghai Pu Dong CN [ZSPD]
WED 15 Aug 2007
Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- -----------------------------------------
SQ 491 DXB 20:00 SIN 07:30 +1 773 0 F0 P0 A0 Z0 C1 J1 D1 L0 K0 S0 Y9 E9 B9 M8
-> SQ 806 SIN 10:10 +1 PVG 15:30 +1 773 0 F0 P0 A0 Z0 C1 J1 D1 S0 Y9 E9 B9 M8 W6 Q0
[KVS Availability Tool 2.8.5/Platinum - Sabre: ITN/US-AXC1]
Code:
DXB Dubai AE [OMDB]
SIN Singapore Changi SG [WSSS]
WED 15 Aug 2007
Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- -----------------------------------------
SQ 491 DXB 20:00 SIN 07:30 +1 773 0 F0 P0 A0 Z0 C0 J0 D0 L0 K0 S9 Y9 E9 B9 M4
Code:
SIN Singapore Changi SG [WSSS]
PVG Shanghai Pu Dong CN [ZSPD]
THU 16 Aug 2007
Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- -----------------------------------------
SQ 806 SIN 10:10 PVG 15:30 773 0 F4 P4 A4 Z0 C4 J4 D4 S0 Y9 E9 B9 M9 W0 Q9
Aug 4, 2007 | 6:06 pm
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: (mostly) where I want to be
Posts: 11
I am guessing that the UA agent may have been checking availability for each individual segment, as opposed to a set of married segments (see the KVS Tool FAQ for more info regarding these and other factors, which may affect availability):
[KVS Availability Tool 2.8.5/Platinum - Sabre: ITN/US-AXC1]
[KVS Availability Tool 2.8.5/Platinum - Sabre: ITN/US-AXC1]
[KVS Availability Tool 2.8.5/Platinum - Sabre: ITN/US-AXC1]
[KVS Availability Tool 2.8.5/Platinum - Sabre: ITN/US-AXC1]
Code:
DXB Dubai AE [OMDB]
PVG Shanghai Pu Dong CN [ZSPD]
WED 15 Aug 2007
Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- -----------------------------------------
SQ 491 DXB 20:00 SIN 07:30 +1 773 0 F0 P0 A0 Z0 C1 J1 D1 L0 K0 S0 Y9 E9 B9 M8
-> SQ 806 SIN 10:10 +1 PVG 15:30 +1 773 0 F0 P0 A0 Z0 C1 J1 D1 S0 Y9 E9 B9 M8 W6 Q0
[KVS Availability Tool 2.8.5/Platinum - Sabre: ITN/US-AXC1]
Code:
DXB Dubai AE [OMDB]
SIN Singapore Changi SG [WSSS]
WED 15 Aug 2007
Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- -----------------------------------------
SQ 491 DXB 20:00 SIN 07:30 +1 773 0 F0 P0 A0 Z0 C0 J0 D0 L0 K0 S9 Y9 E9 B9 M4
Code:
SIN Singapore Changi SG [WSSS]
PVG Shanghai Pu Dong CN [ZSPD]
THU 16 Aug 2007
Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- -----------------------------------------
SQ 806 SIN 10:10 PVG 15:30 773 0 F4 P4 A4 Z0 C4 J4 D4 S0 Y9 E9 B9 M9 W0 Q9
Aug 4, 2007 | 6:12 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: (mostly) where I want to be
Posts: 11
Talked again with United reservations who told me that they checked the MARRIED SEGMENT but it still shows not availability for "D" on SQ491. She states that United uses APOLLO only and does not have access to SABRE; she thinks that Singapore Airlines may block the D availability for use in SABRE only...
Aug 5, 2007 | 6:19 pm
#9
Company Representative - ExpertFlyer
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,924
Could it be that the inventory made available by SQ for this class is something less (or zero) when booked by another airline for a ticket booked by that airline? This is certainly common for award and upgrade inventory by many airlines who save certain desireable invnetory categories for their own elites.
Aug 5, 2007 | 8:52 pm
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: (mostly) where I want to be
Posts: 11
Could it be that the inventory made available by SQ for this class is something less (or zero) when booked by another airline for a ticket booked by that airline? This is certainly common for award and upgrade inventory by many airlines who save certain desireable invnetory categories for their own elites.
Aug 5, 2007 | 9:58 pm
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,952
Not only would it work, but it has been working quite well [for the airlines] for a number of years now -- there are links to a number resources on this topic, located in the KVS Tool FAQ under "POS (Point-of-Sale)/Dynamic Availability".
As explained in the resources above, availability can be made specific to a particular region, country, travel agency/airline Res office, or even agent... Not the same ≠ not reliable.
As explained in the resources above, availability can be made specific to a particular region, country, travel agency/airline Res office, or even agent... Not the same ≠ not reliable.
Aug 5, 2007 | 10:18 pm
#12
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 264
Talked again with United reservations who told me that they checked the MARRIED SEGMENT but it still shows not availability for "D" on SQ491. She states that United uses APOLLO only and does not have access to SABRE; she thinks that Singapore Airlines may block the D availability for use in SABRE only...
[KVS Availability Tool 2.8.5/Platinum - Apollo: ITN/US-ARL]
Code:
DXB Dubai AE [OMDB] PVG Shanghai Pu Dong CN [ZSPD] WED 15 Aug 2007 Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability --------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- -------------------------------------------------------- SQ 491 DXB 20:00 SIN 07:30 +1 773 0 F0 P0 A0 Z0 C1 J1 D1 L0 K0 S0 Y9 E9 B9 M3 W1 H0 Q0 N0 V0 -> SQ 806 SIN 10:10 +1 PVG 15:30 +1 773 0 F0 P0 A0 Z0 C1 J1 D1 S0 Y9 E9 B9 M3 W1 Q0 N0 H0 V0 T0 L0 K0 SQ 491 DXB 20:00 SIN 07:30 +1 773 0 F0 P0 A0 Z0 C1 J1 D1 L0 K0 S0 Y9 E9 B9 M3 W1 H0 Q0 N0 V0 -> SQ 828 SIN 11:35 +1 PVG 16:55 +1 772 0 F0 P0 A0 Z0 C1 J1 D1 S0 Y9 E9 B9 M3 W1 Q0 N0 H0 V0 T0 L0 K0
Since Apollo clearly shows availability, it's not the Apollo vs Sabre excuse. Also, SQ is hosted in a CRS called "Kriscom", not Sabre. Either way since multiple methods on KVS and EF match, it's not a problem with EF. It's either POS (where are you located?) or that SQ isn't allowing UA to sell certain/all of it's inventory, assuming of course, that you checked to make sure there was a valid D fare to sell the inventory against. Did you call SQ directly and ask them what they had?
Either way, EF appears to be showing the correct numbers as SQ has them published for the US.
Last edited by lopinc1; Aug 5, 2007 at 10:30 pm
Aug 5, 2007 | 10:38 pm
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: (mostly) where I want to be
Posts: 11
[KVS Availability Tool 2.8.5/Platinum - Apollo: ITN/US-ARL]
Code:
DXB Dubai AE [OMDB] PVG Shanghai Pu Dong CN [ZSPD] WED 15 Aug 2007 Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability --------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- -------------------------------------------------------- SQ 491 DXB 20:00 SIN 07:30 +1 773 0 F0 P0 A0 Z0 C1 J1 D1 L0 K0 S0 Y9 E9 B9 M3 W1 H0 Q0 N0 V0 -> SQ 806 SIN 10:10 +1 PVG 15:30 +1 773 0 F0 P0 A0 Z0 C1 J1 D1 S0 Y9 E9 B9 M3 W1 Q0 N0 H0 V0 T0 L0 K0 SQ 491 DXB 20:00 SIN 07:30 +1 773 0 F0 P0 A0 Z0 C1 J1 D1 L0 K0 S0 Y9 E9 B9 M3 W1 H0 Q0 N0 V0 -> SQ 828 SIN 11:35 +1 PVG 16:55 +1 772 0 F0 P0 A0 Z0 C1 J1 D1 S0 Y9 E9 B9 M3 W1 Q0 N0 H0 V0 T0 L0 K0
Aug 5, 2007 | 10:44 pm
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: New York, NY, USA
Posts: 12,810
Where are you located?
Alliance has nothing to do with it.
Aug 5, 2007 | 10:46 pm
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: (mostly) where I want to be
Posts: 11
[QUOTE=lopinc1;8180927][B][COLOR=blue
Since Apollo clearly shows availability, it's not the Apollo vs Sabre excuse. Also, SQ is hosted in a CRS called "Kriscom", not Sabre. Either way since multiple methods on KVS and EF match, it's not a problem with EF. It's either POS (where are you located?) or that SQ isn't allowing UA to sell certain/all of it's inventory, assuming of course, that you checked to make sure there was a valid D fare to sell the inventory against. Did you call SQ directly and ask them what they had?
Either way, EF appears to be showing the correct numbers as SQ has them published for the US.[/QUOTE]
Because I am in the US, I did not call SQ because (at least based on my understanding) around the world tickets have to be booked with the local carrier (in my case UA).
Since Apollo clearly shows availability, it's not the Apollo vs Sabre excuse. Also, SQ is hosted in a CRS called "Kriscom", not Sabre. Either way since multiple methods on KVS and EF match, it's not a problem with EF. It's either POS (where are you located?) or that SQ isn't allowing UA to sell certain/all of it's inventory, assuming of course, that you checked to make sure there was a valid D fare to sell the inventory against. Did you call SQ directly and ask them what they had?
Either way, EF appears to be showing the correct numbers as SQ has them published for the US.[/QUOTE]
Because I am in the US, I did not call SQ because (at least based on my understanding) around the world tickets have to be booked with the local carrier (in my case UA).