for m&m members based in the USA it is only 20'000 for transatlantic upgrades too ....

They used to be 25 for german members too,
but from the differences in miles needed you see that LH knows that their program is too
expensive :-)

with the 'old' 25'000 miles, the inner-german-connection-upgrade was not included - now it is!

It#s not only about how much miles you'll have to spend, but also how "easy" you'll earn.
Flying F and C there is no better ratio in *A as it is with LH's M&M.

But ... as often said: if you fly coach mostly, then M&M should not be your program of choice.

Thats my point Bernie, for coach people M&M is not
great, especially if you are based in D with
the higher milage levels needed.

[This message has been edited by peter42 (edited 12-14-2000).]

well, my (LH-Senator and UA Premier Executive 1K) inner-european coach class comparison for the flights I take for meetings with/at the BECK's brewery in Bremen) looks like this:

itinerary in paid eco on LH flights:
Zurich - Munich/Frankfurt - Bremen and return (the Munich stop, arriving before noon, leaving early afternoon, is for a quick visit to the Nurnberg Bratwurstgl�ckerl am Dom)

miles credited to UA Mileage Plus:
4 segments * 500 miles = 2'000 miles and 2'000 status miles!

miles credited to LH miles&more:
4 segments * 1'250 miles = 5'000 miles and 5'000 status miles.

status comparisons:[*]20 such itineraries would make me (I am based in Switzerland; if I would be based in Germany: 30) a Senator; I would need 25 itineraries for Premier Executive or even 50 to reach 1K with UA Mileage. Plus.[*]the status achieved with the LH miles&more program (in any 12 subsequent months, with UA only per calendar year) would be valid > 24 months (UA only calendar year + 2 months).

[This message has been edited by Rudi (edited 12-14-2000).]

Exactly, Rudi and if you fly C or F it gets even better:

o UA 500 + 125 class bonus x 4 = 2.500 (2.000 status)
o LH 1250 + 1250 class bonus x 4 = 10.000 (all status)

UA doesn't give you any status bonus on other * carriers ... LH does

so it gets even better:

The final portion of my C - RTW earns 86.228 M&M miles (all status). If I'd do this with my MP account it would get me 33.812 (just the actual mileage of some 26k miles being status) which is more than 50k miles ABOVE MP. (or 155%). Adding some 10k premex bonus
would make a bit better ... on the bonus count only, of course.

Looking at the US segs alone (some 4k actual flt. miles / 10 segs) it is 32.500 M&M miles to 7.200 with MP.

Even with a trip like that, you didn't even make it Premex with MP halfway. With M&M you are just 14 k miles short of the 100's.

But once again ... this is Biz and F ONLY.

Well, for me (mostly Y flyer), M&M works out because I had a lot of small hops < 500 miles (FMO-FRA, LAX-SFO, IAD-PHL etc.) and get 1250 miles on all of those (e. g. Sh*ttle SFO-LAX: 308 MP miles (status). For the long-hauls, the 100% PremEx bonus is nice, but I'd stick with the carrier that moves the metal I'm in most of the times, and that is LH for me.

Hey, can we get back to the topic?
Is the idea of having one MonStar ff program for real?
Would the quite strong partners [e.g. SQ & UA] really be willing to lose their control of their own program? FF lists are such an important marketing tool for the big guys.
The only way I could imagine this working would be if each airline were part of the Monstar ff program, and in addition had their own recognition scheme such as SQ's PPS. UA still give lots more benefits to their members when flying in UA metal.
Do post any hard info on this idea. I remain to be convinced that it will ever actually happen. The little guys [eg AN, NZ] may be in favour, but they will go with SQ's view.
Koala
Koala

Well if I could keep my LH Sen and get upgrades at SAS hotels a la eurobonus, then i would be a verry happy camper

j

Don't count SQ among the strong partners, Koala. They are a big boost to the alliance's quality image (particularly to combat the one-two punch of CX and BA in OW), but in terms of weight that they can throw around, I put them in the middle of the pack.

The real powers in * are UA and LH. They have the money, the network, and the resources. The newly merged AC is in the ballpark, but like most things Canadian is heavily eclipsed by its bigger US neighbour.

That being said, if they can't come up with a concensus (and SQ is a big impediment to concensus), then I doubt they will do it at all.

Kurt you are right from your location, I am
near Frankfurt and so short flights are only 1250 miles.

AC*SE: I agree with you that SQ is a big impedient to consensus especially with tight management re image/upgrades and Krisflyer program. But, it would seem to me the reason is for the impediment is that SQ definitely has enough $ (innovations in air travel like the bed and A380), network (right up there with CX), and resource WITH or WITHOUT *A. What is your opinion on this?

I guess the question is where do SQ's loyalties lie, and (perhaps more importantly) how do the other alliance members perceive it.

What is UA getting out of SQ? Certainly there will be some feed into their domestic network out of SFO, LAX and to a lesser extent JFK/EWR. But they are probably not getting much new traffic out of LHR, where SQ pax are more likely to be fed to VS.

LH and AC are doing better out of the deal, particularly with codeshares between Europe and Asia.

I think SQ are more valuable out than in, if only for their utility as a marketing element. But if UA and LH set an agenda, I don't think there is going to be a very warm reception for any tendency on SQ's part to buck it.