Dear Star alliance experts,

I am looking to do a RTW as my concert trip is taking me from Europe to Asia on to Australia and the US. When in Europe, I am based in Germany, thus I have LH Gold.

My trip is:

FRA or STR or ZRH as departure points (or somewhere else in Europe if the price would be lower) to

Tokyo

Beijing

Melbourne (with a stopover where?)

Hobart, Tasmania (the local flights in Australia can be on or off the RTW)

Sydney

SFO

NYC

ORD

Aspen

Frankfurt or another airport in Germany that doesn't close the RTW, if there are still more segments I could tack on to it.

and then possibly a few short-haul flights in Europe that I can flexibly plan, if the fare would still allow it.

My question is whether this is worth doing on a Star alliance fare in Business?

What is the approximate price variation is depending on the country of origin and which fare I should go for? Is there a list of prices per country somewhere? I remember there used to be one but I can't find it anymore

What airline should I book it with?

Direct with the airline or do you recommend an rtw guru agent?

Should I collect miles on my LH card (I have a lot of LH miles and don't need to re-qualify for SEN this year) or on United or Aeroplan - would this trip in business earn me a status on another one than LH and which second star alliance status would be helpful to have? I am in the US every month, as well as in Europe.

Many thanks in advance for any advice.

Piano Flyer

There are plenty of threads here about the *A RTW fares and rules... that should be your starting point.
The *A website contains all the rules and you can play with the book-and-fly tool to determine your route and see prices.

The fares will most like be something like €7.000-9.000 (looking at your route it will probably be the fare for up to 39000 miles, you might be able to get it down to close to 29000 if you for instance fly to SYD and do your Australian flights outside your RTW). Staring in Japan would your cheapest option and would buy you more flexibility for a few flights within Europe, although I feel these are hardly worth it if you don't have the extra miles in your RTW fare class. You can easily use a one-way award to get you to NRT.

You do need to know that there are limits to the number of times you can connect in one specific city.... but that's all easily found in the rules.
And you also need to do your homework to make the most out of an RTW fare. They can be very flexible if you understand all the rules, but you also need to realize that there is limited availability for seats with these fares.

I personally don't see much value in using a TA if you take the time to familiarize yourself with the rules and decide on your route.... booking online through the *A book-and-fly tool is also very easy and LH will be the ticketing agent. Any changes are easily done with a phone call or by sending an e-mail.

You can credit miles to any *A FFP. But why not use M&M is you have SEN status there already. It will earn you something like 60.000 miles when done in business (and for the US legs you will most likely be getting the A class that will earn you 3x the miles with M&M, that's where you can get creative). I don't feel a second *G status will benefit you much, but that's for you to decide.
And re-qualifying for M&M can be done two years in a row....

Also look at using some of those M&M miles to book awards for the main part of your trip. Combined with some additional tickets it might be cheaper than an RTW. They have lost some of their appeal with current prices, additional charges for SQ and taxes.

Not interested anymore in getting a reply?

Rather than start another RTW thread I'll piggy-back on this one since the OP seems to have deserted anyway.

I've read the past year of RTW threads here and have studied the info on the Star Alliance site, so I think I'm pretty clear on the rules. However, in my tinkering with the *A RTW booking tool I'm getting crazy pricing compared to what folks cite here. For two people in First, starting in SFO, I've gotten everything from ~$34,000 to $52,000! And that's even before any SQ surcharges come into it. For example, one of many permutations follows:

SFO-JFK-GRU-FRA-DXB-SYD-BKK-NRT-LAX-SFO

The above prices out at $47,816. I'm pretty flexible on the routing with two main caveats:

1. I want to try to maximize great F cabins and lounges.
2. I'd like to include a stop on each continent (I'm booking separately from Europe to Morocco). I realize Antarctica could be a challenge. :-)

Any thoughts on where I may be going wrong?

Many thanks for your thoughts.

P.S. Starting in NRT does bring the price down considerably but the positioning flights don't appeal to the folks I'm trying to book this for.

The price is mainly determined by two things: the starting location, and how many miles you fly.

There are three miles thresholds that are used for pricing 29.000, 34.000 and 39.000 miles. That's where the difference in your prices seems to come from (they price at about $16.000/19.500/23.000 for 1 person in F when starting from the US).

And it really seems unwise if you look at the cost not to start from NRT since that's where you are ending your route anyway and flights there are plentiful.

Also the schedule you have posted hardly seems worthy of an RTW ticket. Two returns with a stopover could accomplish the same and be a lot cheaper. The RTW tickets have a few selling points, their flexibility (you can change the dates without costs, and the routing for very little) and the ability to get you to the smaller airports or off the major routes for a decent fare. If you just fly to the major gateways then there are often options that cost less. And since the aim is to fly F in the best cabins, you're probably looking at major hubs.

You could also look at the SQ RTW options, just on SQ metal and no flights between JFK/LAX but it might be cost efficient.

Also something to keep in mind.... an RTW in F will earn a decent amount of miles, so you might get an additional free ticket out of it.

Your routing as mentioned above is over 37,000 miles, which puts you in the
most expensive range. Simply reversing your BKK and SYD stops brings you down
to just over 34,000 miles, I am sure you can polish it to bring it under 34,000, for lower
price. And simply eliminating GRU would bring you down to 27,000 miles, the cheapest
level. You could probably buy a separate JFK-GRU ticket with the savings. Also, do
not buy a ticket originating in USA. Buy a return LAX-NRT, and the saving on the RTW will
more than make up the difference.

Erm ... isn't it clear where he says he doesn't want to do that?

cheers,

Henry

Yeah, but it's a bit odd since one of the last flights is to NRT. So you would only need a oneway to NRT to start the RTW. And you could do that one anytime since the RTW will be valid for another year. It's more than a free trip to Japan...

Hell, even buy some LifeMiles and fly cheaply in First as well. Or reverse the trip and even start in NRT. The savings are really substantial.

Thanks all. RTW1, to position to NRT does not just require a one-way ticket, of course (after all, the couple is not moving there), but it will require a round-trip. That said, I may try to convince them as the price difference is so substantial. Also, you mention that two round-trip tickets can accomplish the same itinerary for less cost? It's not clear to me how I would construct that -- can you enlighten me? Thanks again for your help!

Sorry, one more question. RTW1 in your post on May 29 you cite a price range of between �7,000-9,000 per ticket for a RTW in F, which is similar to what I've seen elsewhere online. However, in your more recent post you cite three price levels of $16,000, $19,000 and $23,000, which is more in line with what the *A RTW tool has been spitting back at me (although some of the prices have run as high as $26,000 after taxes but before surcharges). Has the landscape changed dramatically recently? Thanks again.

Just a quick reply for now since I'm on a mobile device, having some wine in the setting sun :-).

The earlier prices that I quoted were for an RTW in business. The fares have risen in the last couple of years, and so have the taxes. So they are less of a good deal than they were before. But still usefull when visiting some of the more expensive destinations and when you require flexibility.

Will respond to your other post tomorrow.

As a follow up..... I was replying in the spirit of your remark that "I'm pretty flexible on the routing".

Starting from Japan would seem pretty feasible since I imagine the real starting point is LAX/SFO. If you started from there and first flew to Japan to start the RTW there, continuing west or south you could end the RTW in SFO/LAX and not fly the last leg to NRT. That way you would only need an additional one-way to Japan.

Although if you don't want to waste that last leg you could buy a return and make another trip out of that. Remember, you have a year to fly on your RTW ticket. So you could also do the positioning flight(s) long before or after the rest of the trip. And you can be very creative with the route...

Another great use would be (assuming starting in Japan) to get back to SFO/LAX and save that last flight back to Japan to make a stop in Hawaii. Have another vacation there and fly home (either using what's left of your RTW via NRT or with a one-way from HNL). Your options are plentiful since you can have 16 stops with 5 of those in the US (a connection is also considered as a stop, so in practice you will probably use a few stops on those).

Using miles to do the positioning trips is a great option. They are flexible and with a lot of programs you can do one-ways. Your RTW will earn you a decent amount of miles so those might be almost free as well.

And the savings really are substantial, if you go for the most expensive option (up to 39.000 miles) you will save about $9.000 per person. That should be plenty to buy a few additional flights.

Great points -- thank you!

There seems to be a bit of confusion with some of the terminology here, so for the benefit of those not especially familiar with how the xRWSTARx tickets work it might be good to sort it out.

First, the ticket allows 16 flight segments. If you stop after each flight, then you can have 15 stops. But 'stop' here means a break between flights of 24 hours or more. A connection is a break between flights of 23h59m or less. Thus, a connection is NOT "also considered as a stop".

Next, the ticket allows you to pass through any given airport up to three times but only one of those visits can be a stop (i.e., more than 24 hours). And, in general (there are a few exceptions), you can have only three stops in any country. Clever RTW planning often involves including a break, even an overnight stay, of less than 24 hours so that it is counted as a connection and NOT as a stop.

cheers,

Henry

You're right, I was just trying to keep it simple, there is a difference between segments and stops... However in reality those differences on an RTW don't mean as much since the segments will also be reduced when you need a connection, regardless if you make a stop..... They only become meaningful when you travel within one country/region flying through the same hub a few times. And as always, all the details are in the rules you can find rather easily on the *A website.

The *A book-and-fly tool will also check if you're within the rules, so it's all rather easy to plan if one spends some time. The only thing to be aware of is that the book-and-fly tool might send you in the wrong direction of the globe when given a chance so sometimes it's necessary to include your connection to force your routing correctly. That has confused me a bit in the past wondering why my routing was invalid :-).