phoenixdude

hello all,
Just curious, Does this prevails in other airways? Last week there was a show in Discovery wings about SW, and there are really embarasing the passanger in front of others.
Does the law do any thing for support of passanger?

Thanks
-P

Babu

I wanted to buy an extra seat for a flight from LAX to PHX. But I am not overweight, they said nope--can't do.

Now THAT to me is a ridiculous policy--turning down revenue.

PTravel

I've seen all of the Airline shows, and never once saw them embarrass any passengers. The only embarrassed passengers were the ones who made a scene and embarrased themselves.

However, in response to your question, no, there is no law which prohibits an airline from requiring an overweight passenger to buy two seats or, for that matter, from banning an overweight passenger from flying at all. "Size" isn't a protected class by law, unless it is classified as a disability (to my understanding, obesity is not so classified). Even if it were a disability, the ADA doesn't apply to commercial airlines.

To be blunt, I am less concerned about the feelings of an overweight passenger who must be told he/she must buy two seats (as opposed to the considerate passenger-of-size who is considerate of other passengers and buys two seats without having to be told), than I am about the passenger who has to share half his seat with with a passenger of size because the latter can't fit in his own seat.

nsx

AFAIK, the law does not force the airline to favor either the large passenger or the victim of seat overflow. It's a business decision of which passenger you want to annoy more. SWA gets 10x more complaints from the latter than the former.

DeafFlyer

I'm not arguing either way, just pointing out that there is an Air Carrier Access Act which covers how airlines handle persons with disabilities.

PTravel

You're right about the ACA, of course. If I recall correctly, the gist of the act is that airlines have to provide access to the disabled provided that it can be done safely for the disabled passenger, and without risk to other passengers. I would think, then, that even under the ACA, if obesity was classified as a disability, airlines still would not be obligated to fly heavy passengers without requiring the extra seat purchase.

PTravel

Now, that's a very interesting question. It's certainly established law that airlines can make large passengers by extra seats -- SWA has already defended and won at least one such law suit.

I'm not so sure, however, that the airline can't be required to provide the victim of seat overflow with some accomodation. This is the simple law of contract -- the airline sells me a seat, it has to provide one (though the conditions of carriage provide that it may not necessarily be at the same time as the flight that I booked). I'm fairly certain that, if the airline told someone "either sit in that seat or we'll refund your money" to a passenger who only had access to half a seat because of a large seat mate, there'd be a tenable basis for a breach of contract action. Of course, the measure of damages is so small, i.e. the cost of the ticket, that, in practice, it's hardly worth suing. Hmmm. I've got to think about this -- maybe there's a way to work in a fraud count.

StSebastian

Could there potentially be an issue about the very large people fitting through window exits in the event of an emergency? I know that's not something they bring up, but I'd imagine there might be some issues around that somewhere.

LarryJ

The Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA) specifically states that an airline DOES NOT have to provide an additional seat free of charge to a passenger who does not fit in a single seat.

Tino

Their policy of not assigning seats (which is the source of your complaint) is a very, very profitable policy. Picking up a few extra nickels here and there isn't worth it.

nd_eric_77

This is why (Thank God) most carriers enforce a rule of nobody who needs a seatbelt extension being allowed to sit in an exit row.

blueeyes_austin

They do discriminate on age--in assigning exit row seating, for instance.

Race is a protected class under civil rights legislation.

Obesity is not a protected class under any section of the US code.

JLK9N

As what SW has labeled a "COS," here's my take:

First, I am extremely sensitive to encroaching on anyone else's space on a plane, no matter which carrier. Because of this, I make a point to purchase two seats when flying SW. (I even learned a good way to do it on southwest.com from people right here on FlyerTalk)

Second, because of the snail-mail refund policy, it takes time to send in the paperwork to get the second seat refunded. I don't have any issue with this other than inconvenience, so it prompts me to use Southwest as a carrier of last resort.

Third, I have to agree SW's policy is enforced inconsistently. I've had SW gate agents express surprise when I present myself (as directed by policy) for pre-boarding. They say they're surprised I'm a COS (guess I carry my weight well!) So, yes, I can see how the policy gets applied inconsistently. I guess that's just human nature.

However, at the end of the day I prefer to take responsibility for my own actions and pre-empt any issue on this by purchasing the second seat beforehand. The flying public has made it abundantly clear with their wallets that wider seats won't be in the business model for economy seating anytime soon.

nsx

JLK9N, I am very impressed! In the age of electronic ticketing, WN should automate the refund process. The computer system probably already knows whether all the seats were sold, so this cannot be very difficult. This deficiency of the COS policy, unlike any of the others, is solely within WN's power to fix without any adverse effect on other passengers. So I say to WN: fix it ASAP!

MarshB

JLK9N, what are you referring to as the "snail-mail" refund policy? I get all of my second seat refunds over the phone.