32 Employees Board First
Jul 20, 2020, 11:26 am
#31
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If the airline is directing employees to travel from their normal work location to another location then they aren't NRSA. They are still non-rev but not in the sense that it is usually discussed. Technically, they are non-rev, positive-space (NRPS) but usually called Positive-space to avoid confusion with NRSA. NRPS would include any employee traveling at the direction of the airline as well as crewmembers who are deadheading as part of their trip or to/from training.
The 32 employees described in the original post sound like NRPS. At my airline, most NRPS don't preboard. I don't know SWA's policy.
Jul 20, 2020, 12:02 pm
#32
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Crewmembers commuting to work ARE simple non-revs. More accurately defined as Non-rev, space-available (NRSA).
If the airline is directing employees to travel from their normal work location to another location then they aren't NRSA. They are still non-rev but not in the sense that it is usually discussed. Technically, they are non-rev, positive-space (NRPS) but usually called Positive-space to avoid confusion with NRSA. NRPS would include any employee traveling at the direction of the airline as well as crewmembers who are deadheading as part of their trip or to/from training.
The 32 employees described in the original post sound like NRPS. At my airline, most NRPS don't preboard. I don't know SWA's policy.
If the airline is directing employees to travel from their normal work location to another location then they aren't NRSA. They are still non-rev but not in the sense that it is usually discussed. Technically, they are non-rev, positive-space (NRPS) but usually called Positive-space to avoid confusion with NRSA. NRPS would include any employee traveling at the direction of the airline as well as crewmembers who are deadheading as part of their trip or to/from training.
The 32 employees described in the original post sound like NRPS. At my airline, most NRPS don't preboard. I don't know SWA's policy.
They're people going to work, not people going on vacation. The former *usually* does not spawn any ire in the FT community. The latter...you can search for those threads, they aren't hard to find.
Jul 20, 2020, 4:55 pm
#33
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I'm based in Chicago. Last winter I had a trip which started with a deadhead from Chicago to St. Lucia (UVF). When we arrived I flew the airplane, as a working pilot, to Washington Dulles (IAD). In IAD I went to the hotel for the night then continued my trip the next day. I wasn't commuting as the ORD-UVF was built into my trip. The airline directed me to ride on that flight as a passenger.
That's a deadhead. I was positive-space. If the flight operated, I would be on it.
While I'm based in Chicago, I don't live there. I live in Nashville (BNA). In order to do that trip I had to commute from BNA to ORD the night before the trip started. That is a commute, not a deadhead. The company is not directing me to travel from BNA to ORD. That is something that I choose to do because I didn't spend my days off in the Chicago area.
That is a commute. I was space-available. I only get on the flight *IF* there are seats left over after all revenue passengers are boarded.
Jul 20, 2020, 11:54 pm
#35
Join Date: Jul 2013
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And yet as a rev I often see employees in and out of uniform (even non SWA) boarded before revenue passengers.
On one early Covid flight there were 12 SWA employees (in uniform) on board before the 8-10 rev passengers were boarded.
I don't much care but I wish people would be honest. (As A-list I am seldom lower than the mid A-20's and often earlier)
On one early Covid flight there were 12 SWA employees (in uniform) on board before the 8-10 rev passengers were boarded.
I don't much care but I wish people would be honest. (As A-list I am seldom lower than the mid A-20's and often earlier)
Jul 21, 2020, 7:13 am
#36
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And yet as a rev I often see employees in and out of uniform (even non SWA) boarded before revenue passengers.
On one early Covid flight there were 12 SWA employees (in uniform) on board before the 8-10 rev passengers were boarded.
I don't much care but I wish people would be honest. (As A-list I am seldom lower than the mid A-20's and often earlier)
On one early Covid flight there were 12 SWA employees (in uniform) on board before the 8-10 rev passengers were boarded.
I don't much care but I wish people would be honest. (As A-list I am seldom lower than the mid A-20's and often earlier)
Did you get an acceptable seat on this 22-person flight?
Jul 21, 2020, 11:50 am
#38
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 438
The TSA provides for front-of-line access to screening when we are in uniform.
Large airports, and many smaller airports, have KCM so we have our own line. KCM includes a unpredictable selection element which sends some crewmembers to regular screening. If you see a uniformed crewmember using the front-of-line access at an airport with KCM, he's likely been selected for this unpredictable extra screening. (I'd say 'Random' but they say there's more to it than just random selection)
Another possibility is some smaller airlines that don't pay the fee to participate in KCM. Their crewmembers may use the front-of-line access instead since they can't use KCM.
Airports without KCM usually have an employee lane. Some of them, for reasons I can't explain, have the employee lane on the opposite side from the precheck lane which creates an awkward situation where we have to move across all the other lanes from the front of the employee line to the precheck ID checker. A south Florida airport comes to mind, RSW maybe? It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't work well for us and it doesn't work well for the passengers who are in line when we arrive.
As far as arriving earlier, I can only control when I arrive at the airport on the first day of the trip when I'm arriving from home. My airline controls the timing of transportation from hotel layovers and I can't change that. The airlines are concerned with minimizing delayied flights for crew rest when a crew's inbound flight arrives late.
Even if crews did come in early and wait in line, we'd have joined the line earlier and would be in front of you so the line would have been that much longer when you joined it. You wouldn't reach the front of the line any sooner.
The best solution is KCM. It removes all crewmembers, except the few selectees, from the passenger lines.
Large airports, and many smaller airports, have KCM so we have our own line. KCM includes a unpredictable selection element which sends some crewmembers to regular screening. If you see a uniformed crewmember using the front-of-line access at an airport with KCM, he's likely been selected for this unpredictable extra screening. (I'd say 'Random' but they say there's more to it than just random selection)
Another possibility is some smaller airlines that don't pay the fee to participate in KCM. Their crewmembers may use the front-of-line access instead since they can't use KCM.
Airports without KCM usually have an employee lane. Some of them, for reasons I can't explain, have the employee lane on the opposite side from the precheck lane which creates an awkward situation where we have to move across all the other lanes from the front of the employee line to the precheck ID checker. A south Florida airport comes to mind, RSW maybe? It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't work well for us and it doesn't work well for the passengers who are in line when we arrive.
As far as arriving earlier, I can only control when I arrive at the airport on the first day of the trip when I'm arriving from home. My airline controls the timing of transportation from hotel layovers and I can't change that. The airlines are concerned with minimizing delayied flights for crew rest when a crew's inbound flight arrives late.
Even if crews did come in early and wait in line, we'd have joined the line earlier and would be in front of you so the line would have been that much longer when you joined it. You wouldn't reach the front of the line any sooner.
The best solution is KCM. It removes all crewmembers, except the few selectees, from the passenger lines.
Jul 21, 2020, 1:36 pm
#39
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Some airports setup the employee and crew lines so as not to interfere with passenger screening. Others don't.
My home airport has a separate employee screening area that handles all employees, crewmembers, and KCM. It is completely separated from the passenger screening, and even handles selectees separately, so it doesn't interfere with passenger screening at all. I don't know why more airports can't have it setup that like.
Jul 21, 2020, 3:29 pm
#40
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Again, we're literally talking about spending an extra 5 minutes sitting in a metal tube. We've already established that the passengers aren't actually disadvantaged in any tangible way.
I'm assuming airlines also have break rooms or other resting areas for their employees in airports. Is that "special treatment" too?
This discussion is even sillier right now where no Southwest passenger gets a bad seat - even if you're the final person to board. In "normal" times, I guess someone could come on here and say "I had a B40 boarding pass and I was the first passenger to have to take a middle seat, and I'm *convinced* there were vacationing nonrevs who boarded before me!!" We could debate the merits of the complaint then, but right now, with empty flights galore, there isn't even a real "complaint" to begin with.
Legacy carriers have lots of threads about nonrevs in F (whether perceived or real) but Southwest doesn't even have that kind of "special treatment" available.
Jul 22, 2020, 1:09 pm
#41
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My understanding of their system is that non-revs (NRSA) aren't assigned a boarding card, and a boarding position, until they are cleared onto the flight by the gate agent which wouldn't be until an hour, or less, before the flight. Revenue passengers are assigned a boarding position when they check in, as much as 24hrs before the flight flight in their itinerary. That would put all revenue passengers ahead of all NRSA passengers in their boarding position.
If they are boarding earlier, they are likely NRPS--positive space or deadhead--passengers and aren't going on vacation. NRPS passengers have a reservation, just like any revenue passenger, so can check-in and receive their boarding position when the check-in window opens.
How are through-passengers who deplane handled these days? Are they allowed to pre-board for the continuing segment?
Jul 25, 2020, 5:18 pm
#42
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Crewmembers commuting to work ARE simple non-revs. More accurately defined as Non-rev, space-available (NRSA).
If the airline is directing employees to travel from their normal work location to another location then they aren't NRSA. They are still non-rev but not in the sense that it is usually discussed. Technically, they are non-rev, positive-space (NRPS) but usually called Positive-space to avoid confusion with NRSA. NRPS would include any employee traveling at the direction of the airline as well as crewmembers who are deadheading as part of their trip or to/from training.
The 32 employees described in the original post sound like NRPS. At my airline, most NRPS don't preboard. I don't know SWA's policy.
If the airline is directing employees to travel from their normal work location to another location then they aren't NRSA. They are still non-rev but not in the sense that it is usually discussed. Technically, they are non-rev, positive-space (NRPS) but usually called Positive-space to avoid confusion with NRSA. NRPS would include any employee traveling at the direction of the airline as well as crewmembers who are deadheading as part of their trip or to/from training.
The 32 employees described in the original post sound like NRPS. At my airline, most NRPS don't preboard. I don't know SWA's policy.
these OAX also would have been slotted into the plane for capacity tracking
Jul 27, 2020, 9:22 am
#44
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I've always thought the best way to handle a school group would be to preboard them with instructions to fill in the seats from the back of the plane forward.
Jul 27, 2020, 1:08 pm
#45
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