toomanybooks

This I think is the language on point from the T&Cs:

"Points purchased for personal use or as a gift, transferred points, points earned from program enrollment, Tier bonus points, flight bonus points, and Partner bonus points (with the exception of the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not qualify as Companion Pass Qualifying Points."

With WN the language is always maddeningly imprecise, but I think "transferred" here means specifically from another RR account. The fact that points transferred in from Partners like Marriott, Hyatt, Choice, etc. have been CPQPs since at least 2006 when I first did it, gives a strong presumption that WN has long intended it to be that way.

It is not some loophole that they have overlooked.

rsteinmetz70112

I agree. If points transferred from another program were not intended to be CPQP Southwest has had years to correct their system. Most of the points listed above have never shown up as CPQP. As far as points transfered between accounts or programs outside of the Rapid Rewards system, that is subject to the T & C of those programs and Southwest has no control over those programs.

kenban

Here are the rules on what qualifies as points to be used towards a companion pass from Southwests website.

That is it those are the only sources which are supposed to work. My belief as to why this works is that last option, base points from partners. I suspect right now Southwest has now way to separate transferred points from points actually earned directly by staying at a hotel.

Next this is the text on what does not qualify.

It states transferred points do not qualify. It also states that Partner bonus points do not qualify.

Reading this seems to me at least to say that points earned directly from hotel stays or car rentals etc do qualify, but other ways of getting points from those same partners do not qualify.

The computer backend running Southwest is extremely out of date. Many of the policies of Southwest can actually be traced back to this. For instance the computers cannot handle seat assignments, charging for bags, and multiple classes of service. They also have trouble with flights which go past midnight which is why the airline has so few red eye flights. The fact that the flight schedule is the same almost every day of the week is tied back to this system as well. Ever tried to call customer service and try to get rerouted during a trip? They have no way to do so once you have flown the first segment. You have to talk to someone at the airport. The computer system is literally out of the 80s.

The airline is upgrading the entire backend right now and plans to switch over early next year. Based on the fact that only partner points from partners who you can earn points directly for actives such as hotels qualify, and points from partners who can only transfer points such as Chase Ultimate rewards do not qualify, it feels like just one more thing the current computer system cannot handle.

I do think this will work in January, and plan to do it myself. But will it work in February? Maybe, no way to know. I just wanted to warn people that this might not be possible for much longer. There is a chance nothing changes but the fact that so many partner transfers do not count should make you at least think this is not intended.

rsteinmetz70112

I think this is stretching the definations. Unfortunately Southwest has a history of imprecise language.
How do you define a "Partner bonus point"? Is that only a RR bonus point for a 2X promotion? What about points earned in a Partner program?
Do the "transferred points" refer only to points transfered within the RR program or transferred into the RR program?
As was stated earlier the history of the program indicates that transfers into RR are intentionally CPQP.

kenban

Believe what you want, I just wanted to provide a warning, and have no interest in continuing this. In my opinion the fact that it just happens to have worked for 10 years is not evidence it will continue for another 10 years. Especially when Southwest is currently in the process of upgrading the entire software backend which runs everything including the rewards program.

jamesteroh

I miss the days of when it was easy to get a CP by simple credit card spend.

nsx

I miss the days when 90 cheap flights plus $20k of credit card spending would combine to get you there.

nsx

I doubt the reservation system upgrades will touch RR program software.

There is precedent for a longstanding loophole to be closed intentionally. Southwest didn't enforce name match on re-use of travel funds for at least 15 years. Then, one year, they did. They provided notice for that change. If this one changes, giving notice would cause a run on the bank. That puts Southwest in a tough position, similar to the decision Alaska faced when it was deciding to pull the plug on Emirates First Class redemptions with no notice.

rsteinmetz70112

That is a entirely different proposition from whether the CPQPs currently being awarded are being awarded in error, in violation of the T&C or inadvertently.

toomanybooks

What is so different now? Have $55K-$110K spending post in a calendar year and you get it.

Previously it was 1 credit per $1200 spend, so it required $60K-$120K. Before that (I am aging myself), it was 1 credit per $1000, so $50K-$100K. Do not recall back past that.

These latter were rolling 12-month periods, so maybe that would be easier for some people. And flight credits counted. But CC signup bonuses were much less.

toomanybooks

WN is going to have to make a big change soon anyway as it recharacterizes its liability for outstanding points to come into alignment with FASB rules. By Dec 2017, and it is likely going to be announced before then. It looks to me as if this is potentially a multi-billion dollar issue. ~$20B revenue and they give out 6 ppd minimum on airfare, plus CCs/hotels/rental cars/shopping, etc., plus whatever has accrued over the years and not been redeemed.

They have been quiet about details, but it is mentioned in the last 10-K and conceded to be significant.

They may take this opportunity for a big general revamp of 2.0. If they give us any time to adjust, there very well might be a run on the bank.

rsteinmetz70112

While they may have to make an accounting change, their balance sheet is very strong and recognizing the liability or a reduction in revenue might produce a dip, it should be able to weather the change. Recognizing additional liability or deferred revenue may even provide some tax benefits. It seems eventually the results may balance out, since under current accounting rules both revenue and liailbility must be accounted for. From my understanding the primary difference is when they must be accounted for.

jamesteroh

Diner's club used to have promos one or two times a year were 12,000 points ($12K spending) could be exchanged for a free southwest ticket and the way Southwest treated it was to give you 16 points which counted towards CP. One thing that also helped was I had quite a few Hilton and Marriott stays that would count as one half to one credit which was really nice when I had a cheap Hampton stay as well as car rentals. And MS was a lot easier back then

And WN used to run a lot of promos for 4 credits per RT and most of the paid flights I took on WN were DTW to MDW or BNA flights which were cheap.

I miss the days of only having a few paid flights on WN a year and flying at least once a month for free with a companion. I totally understand why WN changed the system and I was an unprofitable customer for them.

toomanybooks

Well, that goes way beyond CC spend, which I thought you were referencing.

Diners I always liked because of the promos you mention and the way you could pile up points and dump them to WN on the exact date of your choosing. If there is any rationale for Diners now after the devaluation (20%, right?) and the lack of promos, I have not found it. Primary car insurance, but that is pretty common now. Guess it is time to dump.

SWABIZ on top of the 4-credit promos was nice also.

I find MS much easier now than then. And hotels still give 600 WN, on a par with .5 credit.

jamesteroh

I dumped diner's a long time ago. Used to be a great card when you got 20% back at restaurants that were part of Idine (that paid for the annual membership fee there) and the car rental insurance was a lot better than any other credit cards (they provided full coverage not just the supplemental) and the airport lounge access was great. When they branded as a mastercard I thought it would be a good thing since it would be accepted at a lot more places but they really cut back on the benefits and the card wasn't worth it anymore. I'm don't think Citi is even doing new accounts for diner's in the US.

I find MS a lot harder now than a few years ago since the mint program and the charter one programs no longer exist.

Hilton hasn't been a Southwest partner for a long time.