OPNLguy

Believe me, if a certain flight or city-pair gets "picked on" too often we certainly hear about it...

returnoftheyeti

Ok, getting WAY off topic here, but i am curious. I understand that some mechanics can taxi planes around airport, bring them in and out of hangers, etc. What type of "license" do they need for that? Also, if WN needs to ferry a plane, do they have ferry pilots? Or is it just a regular pilot who is not assigned to anything that day? I would bet that is a pretty plumb assignment, flying an empty plane.

wetrat0

This is the correct answer. WN does NOT cancel a flight ONLY because of low loads (source: I have been on numerous flights with 12 pax, 20 pax, etc.). It would be a bad idea anyway because then the aircraft would be out of position. However, if one plane goes mechanical, they will shuffle the remaining planes around so as to inconvenience as few passengers as possible (and I would argue that this is actually quite passenger-friendly, in addition to being helpful to their operations). Suppose they have one working plane and two flights that need to leave in the next hour: a transcon service 1x/day that is fully booked, and a short service that operates 5x/day that is lightly booked. Any reasonable observer would say they should cancel the short hop, because it's much easier to rebook a small number of passengers on a flight that is 2 hours. Fewer people are delayed and they are delayed for a shorter period of time.

OPNLguy

The MX guys/gals must have a FAA A&P certificate (Airframe and Powerplant) and I believe taxi qualification is an add-on requiring additional Company training.

Most (but not all) ferry flights are flown by line pilots. MX test hops are flown by Check Airmen.

Kensterfly

Ferrying planes is not nearly common enough to warrant keeping dedicated ferry pilots on staff. They'd be sitting around twiddling their thumbs all the time.

joshua362

However, Murphy's law states you'll consistently be the once inconvenienced over and over again !

True story, I was flying MCI-MDW-ISP one May, last flights of the day and due to thunderstorms, flights into MDW were being delayed but 4 of us were advised to go anyway since the connecting fight was likely to delayed as well. Well, the connecting plane left without me and I was stranded!

Exactly one week later, same flights, my connecting flight was held over an hour to allow 4 connecting passengers to make the MDW-ISP leg.

toomanybooks

Years ago my wife had some business in DC and was flying back and forth from Chicago on UA, because they had the government contract. The same plane did several roundtrips daily.

Plane "went mechanical" EIGHT times on her over a few months in low-load scenarios. Cancel a RT, pack them on the next to save money. Smart plane. It always knew when it had a large load going and managed to keep itself operational.

it was so obvious it was absurd. She will not fly UA any more, ever.

And, yes, I posted about it in the UA forum and was told I was delusional.

diver858

The primary difference between UA and WN in this case (particularly for elites) is interline agreements - ORD is also a hub for AA, UA can/will rebook elites during IRROPS.

formeraa

As a former airline employee, if a planes goes out of service for mechanical reasons, then you try to cancel a flight where the outbound leg is lightly booked, the next leg is lightly booked, AND there are alternate flights available to rebook the passengers on within a few hours.

While it may seem that a flight was canceled due to light bookings, it much, much more likely that a plane went out of service and the airline canceled the flight with the least passengers.

liberty805

Yes they can and yes they do. This doesn't mean they will always do it (I'm sure we have all been on light load aircraft before) but I am positive that from time to time they will cancel a flight with a light load as long as certain criteria are met. And again this doesn't mean that they will always do this.

This happened to me last December while flying from SJC to PHL with a change of planes in Denver. When I dropped off my bag at SJC the counter person looked at my reservation and said, "wow, looks like you are gonna have a plane to yourself on the Denver to Philly segment." I asked what the load was and was told 31 on a plane that holds 177 or so. Immediately I worried that the flight would get canceled.

Sure enough, as soon as I arrive in Denver I'm notified that the DEN-PHL flight has been canceled due to weather in Philadelphia. Problem is, there was no bad weather in Philly that night, (43, some drizzle, good visibility). No other flight into PHL (including several from Southwest) was canceled. Only my lightly loaded flight. I was pretty livid since there were no other flights at that hour and as the airline was claiming weather they did not have to provide a hotel. I argued and argued with the supervisor at DEN who even assured me that there hadn't been any plane swap or other delay and even agreed that it seemed odd that my flight happened to be the ONLY cancellation into PHL that evening. The plane I was to be on was just sitting, empty at the gate.

So yeah, the airline will deny deny deny that they ever do this, but I am positive it happens from time to time. As for possibly needing the aircraft in PHL for the next day, it so happened that this plane was scheduled to return to DEN in the morning so Southwest had no problem cancelling that flight as well and the plane was already where it needed to be. The morning passengers could be easily re-accommodated.

s0ssos

The problem is it hard to prove, and the other issue is that companies don't police themselves. This has been proven over and over. You cannot just not have oversight and let them report/police/regulate themselves. I'd say most people have no issue with lying. They only have issues with getting caught. And if the chance is low ...

jco613

I have a couple of scenarios I'd like to share that have both happened:

Scenario 1 happened in MDW in May. I can't confirm what happened, but I believe weather was involved. It appeared that nearly EVERY WN flight was changed (meaning, the aircraft was swapped at MDW...so if you were on a 1 stop same flight number CMH-MDW-MSP for example, you'd have to get off and change in MDW). This caused some big delays and they blamed weather. However, the point of the story is they swapped things around so that the delays would impact the fewest number of people for the shortest time. Obviously loads were weighed as to which planes went where. I know I was concerned because my family was on MDW-FLL and that aircraft turned right back around to MDW but the flight was just delayed and not canceled.

As someone said, loads and other impacts later in the day also effect the decision. Back in 2008 I believe, I was on FLL-TPA (or MCO...I used to connect at both and my memory is a bit foggy). The plane had come in from TPA as the first flight of the day. THERE WAS ONE PASSENGER ON THE INBOUND! They could have easily canceled the flight but didn't.

So I will agree with others. Loads and convenience are part of what determines the completion of the flight. That being said, I'm sure ALL airlines strive for a 100% completion and I'm sure there was no bad intentions in canceling the OP's flight.

nineworldseries

I've been on several WN flights with fewer than 20-25 pax on board. I'm pretty confident they aren't cancelling flights due to low volume.

liberty805

They don't always do it. It's actually probably rare when they do, but there is no doubt, based on my own experience that they do cancel flights due to low volume occasionally.

As has been discussed in this thread they need to be able to "claim" a reason OTHER than low volume to be able to get away with it. In my case last December I'm sure there was some type of weather advisory issued for PHL. Southwest took that as an opportunity to cancel the flight out of DEN that I was to be on because it had a load of 31 out of 177. Neither Southwest nor any other airline canceled any other flights into PHL that evening. Southwest even had a flight out of LAS that flew at the same time and along the same flight path as my canceled flight. I am positive that if my flight had been booked full, it would have flown. (And no I was assured there was no plane swap or other mechanical issue with my plane. It sat at the gate, empty, the whole night.)

NextTrip

Where was that plane scheduled to be in the morning? And what did that do to the crew schedule?