Mcdonoughdr

Hey Everyone, I am sitting here on a Southwest flight (MDW-ATL) and I've seen stuff today thats made me feel like Southwest is become nothing more then American or any other carrier.

1. Higher fares with lower fuel costs: They are no longer a "low cost" airlines, there fares are really no cheeper then anyone else. There whole brand is no longer about cheep flights either.

2. Up-Sells! From increasing the price of Early Bird Check in, to trying to scam customers of $40 to "upgrade" your boarding spot. I feel like there becoming a larger version of Spirit....

3. The crew's seem to have lost the attitude that comes form the Southwest spirit, I've come across more rude crew members on SWA lately then I've ever had on any other airline...

I'm not saying i'm going to stop flying SWA, I just feel like there becoming an airline of another type.

toomanybooks

Welcome to Flyertalk, Mcdonoughdr!

Have a look at recent posts and you will see that many of us agree with you.

joshua362

Yes, you hit it right on the head. More effort is going into telling us how special & different they are instead of continuing to demonstrate just how special they used to be. After nearly 15 years of non-stop loyal flying since they moved into ISP, this week I've officially given them up for business travel.

WillCAD

1. Hogwash. I checked on WNs web site just now; for a non-stop flight MDW-ATL today (Sat 26 Oct), with a return Monday 28 Oct, the r/t fare is $606. No baggage fees. Using Orbitz, I find only one n/s r/t fare that beats WN, on AA, for $220.80+bag fees. AirTran matched WN's fare but adds baggage fees, and ALL of the other carriers' fares are $792 and above+bag fees.

There are some routes where WN is consistently more expensive than other carriers, but the idea that WN has raised it's fares across the board to match or exceed the legacy carriers just isn't so.

2. EBCI was a great perk when it was introduced at such a low price, but unfortunately, it's low price made it something that a LOT of pax were using, thus diluting its benefit. I believe the price increase was less about profits (though any company is happy with increased profits) and more about reducing the percentage of pax using EBCI. After all, if the majority of pax are using it, but only the first 45 can be in the A group anyway... you're going to have pax complaining that they paid extra and still got stuck in B. It could be done better, however.

3. Define "rude." Please cite specific examples. You see, in my experience, everyone has their own personal definition of "rude", and I have seen enough examples of arrogant DYKWIA types DEMANDING things they're not entitled to, and then declaring that the person from whom they were demanding it was "rude" because they politely explained that it was not within their power to fulfill the demand.

Like, you know, when some idiot shows up to the gate 15 minutes late and then DEMANDS that the FAs remove other pax's belongings from the full overheads so his precious case won't be gate-checked... and then calls them rude and heaps abuse on them while refusing to sit down so the aircraft can push back, all because they're not authorized to pull other pax's bags out of the overheads.

BerenErchamion

If anything, I suspect the exact opposite (that legacy carriers have lowered their fares to be on par with Southwest's) is the more likely scenario.

antinseattle

1. Fuel is bought forward on WN. Looking at today's price doesn't/shouldn't reflect current flight costs. I've purchased numerous 49/69/99 OW flights this year. Why would they lower flight costs when it's based on economic demand? My flights past 12 months tend to run 95 percent capacity, with the occasional half full.


2. "Greed is Good"-Gordon Gekko. No ones forcing anyone to pay these fees. There's still value on some flights to buy, otherwise don't buy and it probably shouldn't bother you.

3. I've been on 75+ WN flights this year. I don't see this, maybe it's not on my routes. I agree with a earlier post, " Me, me, me". It's never the person who is being a pia, that persons fault. "Something for nothing, and Me, Me, Me" should be our country's creed, if its not. FA's like everyone on earth, have a bad personal day. It happens to everyone.

dw

Because of the proliferation of routes with competition from WN, B6, etc., the legacies can't gouge us on as many routes as they used to, but all you have to do is take a look at a route operated nonstop only by the legacies to see how high fares really could be- some of these routes still have minimum stay and/or Sat night stay requirements, which is one way they really gouge business travelers.

Often1

Anyone who fell for the old-style "WN is a fun & cheap and is your friend" was one of those people who it's said is born every minute.

Post recession, business travelers look at the big picture. Doesn't matter what the fare is, what matters is what it costs to go from A to B. If that means schlepping to an inconvenient airport where you can't be rebooked on another carrier when your aircraft goes MX, where you have to either arrive early or pay more in order to get a decent seat and so forth, that's a bad business deal.

So, WN has tried to become more mainstream, but that costs $ and those costs are reflected in higher fares.

Nobody is gouging anyone. Sopisticated business people analyze costs every day and find that the legacies remain a good deal. That's the ultimate problem for WN.

LegalTender

All evidence to the contrary.

Average Southwest one-way fare rose 11.3% over 3Q 2012. Average DL fare climbed just under 5%, UAL's up 3.3%.

Collateral damage:

BerenErchamion

I suppose if only a superficial analysis is sufficient for you, that's a compelling argument.

Consider this hypothetical (I'm not saying these numbers are real or that this is exactly how it went down--this is just an example to show how absurd and superficial your "reasoning" is):
Let's say, that Delta and UA are both charging roughly $600 for a non-stop one-way from St. Louis to Denver. Southwest comes in and finds they can do it for $300, so that's what they charge. Delta and UA, to stay competitive, lower to somewhere in that range, say $320, hoping that they can get customers to pay the difference based on a superior product.

Time goes on, things happen, and everyone's forced to raise their prices. Delta finds that it needs to raise its price by 5%, to $336. UA finds it needs to raise its price by 3.3%, to $330.56. Meanwhile, Southwest, for whatever reason, finds that it needs to raise its price by 11.3%, to $333.90.

Yeah, Southwest raised its prices by more than the others, both in absolute dollar terms as well as proportionally. In fact, it's now actually more expensive than UA's. But if Southwest hadn't come in in this scenario, you might still be paying $600 for that ticket on United rather than $330.56.

So you can't just look at those numbers you gave and say "all evidence to the contrary." That's a complete failure to actually analyze the issue critically.

LegalTender

And your hypothetical is NOT absurd?

The 3Q fares climbed absolutely. That discounts for WN focus cities like STL, MDW and LAS and for legacy fortresses with reciprocal price pressures that would offset in the aggregate.

BerenErchamion

No, because it actually makes an attempt to integrate temporal and conceptual context, rather than just looking at a single point or a few points in isolation.

sdix

1.) Agree. We fly SJC-PHX weekly. US is always on par with if not several $'s cheaper. SJC-DTW US is cheaper, SJC to Chicago AA is cheaper. (And I'm Chairman on US and Plat on AA so bag fees don't matter.)

2.) EBC is a joke. It's not EBC if the number's in the B's. The $40 is just plain offensive. Why aren't EBC's moved up into those spots?

3.) Seem ok. Not as animated as they used to be but doesn't bother me.

smmrfld

Just curious...you seem to really have issues with WN, yet you frequently post here. Are you a former FA, bag handler, or some other such disgruntled ex-employee?

LegalTender

No. Not even close!

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