Exiled in Express

It takes two to tango. Ex-MSP Southwest has the pricing power on the nonstops and select other destinations. Delta and the other legacies match Southwest's price, can't fault them for actions out of their control. 65 cpm to Chicago is far from a great deal but is less than half of what a close in purchase was before they entered the market.


With that said, my single most expensive domestic ticket this year was on WN. 4 days out I changed flights from first of the day to last of the day and paid an additional $200 in WGA fare, but no change fee. I would like to see fares better reflecting actual inventory rather than the X days out fare jumps to Y minimum strategy in place now. Or even DING fares from MSP...

Kacee

Agree with points 1 and 2, not number 3.

I regularly fly WN within California and to Arizona. It's definitely no bargain - typically pay $450 or so for a roundtrip OAK-LAX/BUR/ONT/SNA. B6 to LGB is consistently cheaper and UA SFO-LAX is often much cheaper. But I love WN's frequency and reliability. Also, while I appreciate the no change fee, there is now no way to make a day of travel change without upfaring to an anytime fare. By contrast, on UA I can SDC for no charge and keep my discounted fare.

Boraxo

Time to cue up "Unchained Melody"

WN lost the LUV when KEL/G took the helm. RR 2.0, Evolve, just a steadily deterioration in the passenger experience. The attempt to attract midcon/transcon business passengers has been a huge fail - no upgrades, no IFE, no food, no lounges, no SDC (except full fare) no international awards - basically no perks except slightly less hassle for A-list (faster TSA, priority boarding).

Personally it would not bother me if WN added bag fees, particularly for the 2nd bag. I never check on business trips and we never exceed 1 per person on leisure trips. Charge people who check and less pressure to raise fares for everyone else.

That being said I only fly WN due to convenience of secondary airports (OAK, BUR) and frequency of short-haul flights. Nonstop schedule from West Coast to beyond DEN is just too weak.

Fluffybunny1

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...55741368853418

"...we'd be crazy not to provide our customers with what they want."

nsx

I want a second bag fee, to pay for removal of the extra row of seats.

expert7700

Here's an idea

Southwest could announce that in keeping with their brand and passenger expectations, 2 Bags Fly Free will still apply to all tickets/all fare classes. The new change could be "Jet Fuel is expensive yet Southwest wants to still be a fun LUVing airline." Passengers who determine that they do not need to check ANY bag can scan their boarding pass at a special kiosk at the gate, to get: (insert prize here).......

a crisp $20 bill? a $20 Southwest Giftcard? rental of a thicker seat cushion?

This would effectively un-bundle airfare / baggage fares, but without the negative press or customer reaction of charging for bags like the other carriers.

Kacee

One of the most important benefits of bags fly free is that the flights are not plagued with excessive carry-ons, allowing those exceptionally quick turns that are key to WN's competitive advantage. If they start charging for checked luggage, it will cause serious ripple effects throughout the flight schedule. You can be assured management has this issue in mind.

RoyalFlush

These threads just so entertain me. SWA is a different animal compared to 20, 15, 10, even 5 years ago. Ditto for the legacy carriers.

Having said that, I just purchased a FLL->DEN one-way six days out. $155.

Bankable monies (no change fee) is hugely important to me.

No other carrier can touch that $155. Period.

WillCAD

What do you mean by "reflecting actual inventory"? Do you mean you think the fare should be higher only when there are few seats left, or do you mean the fare should be cheaper for last-minute bookers?

Personally, I like the idea that last-minute bookers pay more. It's a strategy designed to force as many people as possible to book well in advance. Booking well in advance means an airline can better plan their load capacity, fuel needs, and staffing. If last-minute bookers got discounted fares, far more people would be booking last-minutes, leaving WN to scramble to adjust their schedules, fuel usage, and staffing to accommodate more people and baggage.

I know that last-minute bookers paying more hurts the business traveler who must travel on short notice most of the time. But let's face it - despite their attempt to increase their share of business travelers over the last few years, WN is still primarily a leisure-travel carrier whose bread and butter on most routes is still folks going on vacation. And folks going on vacation typically book well in advance of their trip, so WNs fare structure works for them.

From their major hubs to their major hubs, WN is still cheapest by far, especially when you factor in the bag fees; and although business travelers tend to forget the bag fees because they travel over shorter time periods and can make it with carry-ons more often, the majority of WNs pax are still leisure travelers who DO need to check bags, and the bag fees make a huge difference in the total cost of flying.

dilbertsdaddy

Southwest is nothing more than a brilliant marketing scam, making people think it is better and cheaper when it is not.

nsx

Resting on your laurels is not a scam, assuming you earned them. It's something different: complacency.

Here on FT we noticed this at least 7 years ago:

RoyalFlush

Seriously? A marketing scam?

Really?

What are they tricking people into? Or, rather, what is your perception of what they're tricking their customers into?

Fine print regarding change fees? Fine print about bag fees?

Or is it maybe they have low fares? (Which they do) they're not the lowest across the board by any means. Many, many times they are, especially when you factor in a change fee.

But they are always the fairest. One rarely, if ever, finds an unfair SWA price.

Th same can't be said for, say, Delta.

Michael El

+1
I started noticing the lack of LUV in 2008. KEL/G entered WN in the race to the bottom in his quest to become a legacy airline. All of the goodwill Herb built into WN is out the window and they're living on the old WN reputation of low fares and fun. Poor customer service is becoming more apparent and more fees are on the horizon.

ElmhurstNick

I don't know if they've lost the LUV, but I think the culture has changed after both Herb and Colleen retired from day to day operations. Little things, such as the introduction of the "dressier" FA uniform options, and bigger things such as the drink coupon fiasco.

As much as they have always given lip service to the leisure travelers, to me WN's core market has always been small business owners/employees who don't qualify for corporate fare discounts. I think GK has been systematically pulling back from this LUV and sticking it to that market segment. GK's changes to the pricing for flights in the 800-1300 mile range, such as CLE-SAT (1240 miles) is an example: 21-day WGAs are still in the $260 range, but AT fares are over $1000.

Southwest NEVER used to have that kind of massive spread between WGA and AT. A $500 spread, maybe. But not $750-$800 spreads.

That's one reason I've moved half of my business first to Delta and now to American. (The other reason is Devolve.) I can only justify a spread of about $350, which coincidentally limits me to the same short-hauls where Devolve doesn't start to really bother my hips until we're ready for landing.

melissaru

Do you REALLY think those bags are "free"? Comparing WN's fares with any of the legacy carriers, at least out of ATL, you'll find they are usually higher and include multiple stops. You're not getting anything "free" - it's all built into the cost of the ticket and the psychological game is to make people think they're getting a deal.
Add in the stress of open seating, the bus-stop mentality, lack of a biz class and seats that would make a straitjacket feel comfortable and what do you have? Ah, right. Lots of Luv.
The no change fee can indeed be a benefit for biz fliers, but most biz fliers have status on other airlines which provide noteworthy perks, including...free bags. And seats. And upgrades. And, almost always, comparable - if not cheaper - fares.