InkUnderNails

I have tried to twice substitute F9 for WN on a couple of my routes. They are 2 for 2 in late flights causing a rerouting. On the last one, the very nice ticketing people, no fault to them, were overwhelmed and the process was chaos. I finally got home, but for a while I did not know. I called the reservation line while waiting and tried to rebook, but they said they could not handle it without an extra charge. I have always been able to call and find new routes with WN while waiting. Sometimes when one buys cheap one gets cheap.

The one successful leg I did have was fine. The Classic Plus is a fairly cheap upgrade particularly if one checks bags, not quite first class, but better than the back. If you buy very early the price is lower. Close in, or as the flight sells out, it starts to go up.

One thing I like about WN, the BS fare is what it is, six months out or six hours out it does not change based on capacity. I always can know what P(max) is.

jamesteroh

Problem is WN is more expensive many times. I have compared fares on flights I have taken to Delta on WN and not only does WN require a connection, their fares are usually higher by enough that the flyer with no status would be bettter off paying the $25 to check a bag each way. I almost always carry on anyway, so I would rather Delta keep the fares lower than to raise them and include a checked bag for free. And if you fly over 25K miles a year, a legacy offers you a lot more at even the lowest elite leval than WN does as an A lister.

A business traveller wants things like upgrades, better seating in coach, lounges, etc., none of which WNM offers. And most business travellers want an airline that will handle an irrops situation better than WN does.

tusphotog

I think a lot of you aren't comparing fares correctly. Sure, DL might throw a T fare in 3 days out and have lower prices (it saved me $400 over WN in the spring, I might add), but compare refundable fares between DL and WN on markets where they compete and markets they don't. SLC-BWI: refundable M on DL: $495. WN: $495 (DL has a better nonstop schedule). SLC-DCA: $745 DL. SLC-ATL: $1,015 if you go nonstop on DL.

FWIW if you pull up SLC-ATL in March (I used 3/13), DL's Y fare is still $1,015. WN Y is $500 with a stop. DL's lowest fare on that day is L class, for $342 and you have to stop in LA or SEA. WN is offering it for $149 with stops in DEN, PHX or LAS.

I'd bet a lot of the hardcore business travelers want an airline that has a robust schedule. Delta is great in certain markets. WN is fantastic in others. Upgrades are nice, but it's really nice to have more than a few flights a day.

I think it's amusing how people try to convince others that "their" airline is the best. Fly whomever works for you. I spent most of October on a DL plane (including a $800 YYZ-DTW-MSP flight inside the Canadian Torture Tube 200),
and they're a really good airline. If I wasn't crediting the flights to AS, I'd probably be a GM over there.

jamesteroh

EVERYTIME I have flown DTW/LAS this year I have compared fares on WN and DL and DL has always been cheaper (and had non stops and WN you have to connect) and usually by a big amount. In fact one time if you added in EBCI, WN would have been the same as DL would have been in on a discounted First Class tickete (and this wasnt a fully refundable WN FARE).


Depends on the airport though. Out of DTW, Delta is definitely the bettter choice over WN unless you fly to MDW or STL or BNA. Out of MDW, assuming you are going to citiers WN services, WN is probably the better choice.

Another issue to factor in with WN is if you arent a-list you have the $20 EBCI unless you are at a computer at exactly t-24. I can avoid a baggage fee, I cant avoid the EBCI unless I want to be tied to a computer at exactly t-24 or risk having a bad seat. Something the legacies should focus on to counter WNs no bag fees is that they dont charge the EBCI fee.

tSame with their no change fees. While it can be nice for some, if I travel for work, if I get done with my meeting or project early and want to catch an earlier flight home, I simply call Delta within 3 hours of departure time and if there is a seat on the plane, I have it. If you are on WN, you pay to upgrade to a full fare.

joshua362

+1

From ISP, an extra 40 minute limo ride to LGA, on a dreaded legacy within 24 hours, saves me 1/2 of Anytime fares, even with 1 bag fee of $25 and I can go DIRECT saving me at least 1.5 hours not having to connect at MDW.

There was no more loyal WN fan than me from 1999-2010 flying from ISP, never considered the competition, making crazy connections.

Plus I am sitting on 8 x 1.0 awards that just seems impossible to use out of ISP.

YMMV at other airports. I hope its a different story out there!

EIPremier

I almost never check bags, so bags fly free is pretty much moot to me. However, schedule frequency and the lack of change fees is the main reason I stay loyal to WN. For example, if I flew UA on the same route, I'd have to pay $150 every time I wanted to change my ticket. Given that my usual route is SAN-SFO, that might exceed the value of my ticket in some cases. I've probably saved well over $1000 this year by not having to pay change fees on WN. The ability to make multiple reservations in advance and not have to worry about some last minute change to my work schedule is really a huge, huge benefit to flying WN. That said, I've been having trouble finding any decent fares lately within 7 days of departure, so it's not providing me with as much flexibility as it used to.

I also agree with others that most WN employees provide excellent customer service.

InkUnderNails

I want an airline that moves my sorry butt long distances very quickly. Beyond that, everything else becomes branches on the decision tree, most of them quite irrelevant to the primary goal.

jamesteroh

I want that as well, and in my stiatuion Delta provides a much job than WN. I can get direct non-stops to almost any city on DL and cant on WN (and I realize out of a place like MDW it would be the total opposite), if I want to fly home earlier I can for no charge on Delta on a cheap ticket'. And not to mention an IRROPs situation, any legacy you fly with a lot will probably get you to destination a lot faster than an a-lister would with WN.



Also the problem of airports they dont service that I fly to. They dont provide service to ATL, DCA, MIA or DFW.

They USED to do a great in the 90s of getting me from DTW to MDW and BNA but lately they have been awful about delays and I have been flying to many other different cities now. Back when I used to fly mainly to MDW and BNA and when they had a VERY GENEROUS RR program, it made snese for me to use WN. Four short business trips and I had a ticket to use to LA or SF or for mardis gras or some other event when airfares were absurd.

bofc

I think there is another advantage to WN that people don't note or appreciate. I recently flew on Alaska and was shocked by the boarding experience - I presume because of the charge for checked baggage, the boarding process was crazy! EVERYONE was itching to board 35 minutes before departure to stuff their bags overhead, there was no room for ANY roller bags by the time my row was called and the scene was quite angry and charged on board.

WN offering free checked baggage seems to reduce the number of bags loaded on board. That's an advantage evn for those that DON'T check bags. Thanks WN - PLEASE stick with the no checked bag fee policy -it's noticed and appreciated.

lougord99

That is exactly my experience on US and UA.

tusphotog

I've noticed this on DL as well.

One thing that really irks me on AS: they board now 45 minutes early. If you're on a 73G in F, you have to be board when they call F, otherwise you risk having your bags gate checked. If you board when they start, you can be on the plane a full hour before it even moves, since the flight deck has to wait for the final numbers to be sent over before they push.

jamesteroh

I have seen bins full on WN as well. Problem with Wn is even if you do check a bag you need to boars ASAP if you want a decent seat.

toomanybooks

"From ABC to DEF, WN is cheaper on this specific date I have in mind, so you should fly them."

"Oh, yeah, well from GHI to JKL, DL is cheaper on some other date even with bag fees, so you should fly THEM."

Flyertalk should automatically put "YMMV" after every single post. Might save some of this back-and-forth with people using minuscule data points trying to prove sweeping statements.

Fly whatever meets your needs on that trip for comfort, speed, schedule, price, fees, FF program, time of year, promos, etc. Use linear algebra if you want to facilitate the computation. Don't copy me on the data.

And I agree with the point about going around repeatedly posting how crummy an airline is when you don't fly it. I have never flown Frontier or JetBlue, so why would I go to those forums and tell everyone how dumb he is for flying them? And it gets very tiresome to read the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Hey, we got it.

YMMV.

Dunbar

I rarely book my business travel more than 1-2 weeks out and on WN you aren't doomed to a middle seat in this scenario. I have to wonder if the next "revenue enhancement" trend in airline travel will be to the US Airways model of basically witholding a bunch of window/aisle seats so that people will pay for a "preferred seat."

I recently flew AA to Dallas and they probably made 6-8 announcements during the boarding process about the lack of overhead space. That was after being accosted by the airport personnel at LAX to make sure that my carry-on bag met size guidelines before being allowed to proceed to the security checkpoint...That's just not something you experience on WN. I will say AA's new Virgin America style interiors on some of their 737's put WN to shame.

tusphotog

In my experience full bins on WN happen more frequently in the winter than they do in the summer. I rarely see them gate check bags (unless we're on a -500), on the west coast. Out of MDW or STL or somewhere equally as miserable in January? They start gate checking before the C group boards.

That being said, years ago, I boarded a WN flight last. Grabbed the middle lounge seat in row 1 and proceeded to hunt for some space for my rolling camera bag in the overhead. The captain heard me explaining to the FAs why I wasn't going to send $30,000 worth of camera gear downstairs, said he's stick it in the flight deck and we were off. ^